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Autocross- SCCA EV-X Class vs. SS
- Thread starter RacerChris
- Start date
Like to get some input on my planned upgrade path for Autox in EVX/PAX. The car is also a daily driver more or less. Can't do it all at one due to funding. This isn't my first rodeo in the autox world, just on the Tesla side.
Is it better to fix the camber issues and go with MPP FUCA + LCA bearings, or is it better to get coilovers and worry about camber later? So in batches..
1, MPP FUCA + LCA bearings (rear camber arms??)
2, MPP sport COs.
3, 295+ tires & wheels
Currently have a May/2022 P , that is stock with 21lb 19x9.5 +35 wheels, sporting 265/35 PS4S. Eventually I foresee 19x10.5s and 295+ in my future.
Is it better to fix the camber issues and go with MPP FUCA + LCA bearings, or is it better to get coilovers and worry about camber later? So in batches..
1, MPP FUCA + LCA bearings (rear camber arms??)
2, MPP sport COs.
3, 295+ tires & wheels
Currently have a May/2022 P , that is stock with 21lb 19x9.5 +35 wheels, sporting 265/35 PS4S. Eventually I foresee 19x10.5s and 295+ in my future.
Camber first. If you don't. you'll spend all your money on tires and never be able to afford more.
You don't need the LCA bearings, they are a nice to have. Last upgrade you should do if what you care about is actually going fast.
If lowest times are your goal, as well as staying in EVX:
1) Front Camber
2) Good, zero toe alignment.
3) Seat time, Seat time, Seat time. Nothing else really matters until you can set consistent times right out of the gate.
4) Tires
5) Coilovers
6) Rear camber
7) Some people like an adjustable rear sway, matters how you drive and the car feels to you.
8) LCA / other bushings
You don't need the LCA bearings, they are a nice to have. Last upgrade you should do if what you care about is actually going fast.
If lowest times are your goal, as well as staying in EVX:
1) Front Camber
2) Good, zero toe alignment.
3) Seat time, Seat time, Seat time. Nothing else really matters until you can set consistent times right out of the gate.
4) Tires
5) Coilovers
6) Rear camber
7) Some people like an adjustable rear sway, matters how you drive and the car feels to you.
8) LCA / other bushings
SK360
Member
I agree with the above.
I ran one year with just 255/40/18 RE71R's and it was frustrating from an understeer and tire wear perspective. Then I did MPP Sport Coilovers & MPP Front Upper Control Arms and switched to 19x10's with 265/35/19 RE71R and had a much better time, took FTD 3 times and won driver of the year, if I could have only picked one it would have been the FUCA's. This year I added solid lower control arm bearings, compression rod inserts & brake brace on 265/35/19 RT660's and I've been FTD at 2/4 events so far.
Alignment is max camber in the front, 0 toe all around and the rear camber fell to -1.7 with factory arms.
Next year I have plans to finish the MPP catalog out.....
I ran one year with just 255/40/18 RE71R's and it was frustrating from an understeer and tire wear perspective. Then I did MPP Sport Coilovers & MPP Front Upper Control Arms and switched to 19x10's with 265/35/19 RE71R and had a much better time, took FTD 3 times and won driver of the year, if I could have only picked one it would have been the FUCA's. This year I added solid lower control arm bearings, compression rod inserts & brake brace on 265/35/19 RT660's and I've been FTD at 2/4 events so far.
Alignment is max camber in the front, 0 toe all around and the rear camber fell to -1.7 with factory arms.
Next year I have plans to finish the MPP catalog out.....
I can always use more seat time, but do OK with what I've got. This weekend was the first autox weekend in 7-8 years, so was still getting back up to speed (pun intended). Sat was dry and got killed, but yesterday, Sunday, was in the (very) wet yesterday. Rain is always the great equalizer, and I don't feel bad coming in behind this guy...
Last run was almost there.
Last run was almost there.
Fprodget
Member
Party Box too......I agree with the above.
I ran one year with just 255/40/18 RE71R's and it was frustrating from an understeer and tire wear perspective. Then I did MPP Sport Coilovers & MPP Front Upper Control Arms and switched to 19x10's with 265/35/19 RE71R and had a much better time, took FTD 3 times and won driver of the year, if I could have only picked one it would have been the FUCA's. This year I added solid lower control arm bearings, compression rod inserts & brake brace on 265/35/19 RT660's and I've been FTD at 2/4 events so far.
Alignment is max camber in the front, 0 toe all around and the rear camber fell to -1.7 with factory arms.
Next year I have plans to finish the MPP catalog out.....
SK360
Member
I'm not sure on that yet, I don't feel like Track Mode is holding me back but maybe it is and I don't realize it!
Cool, another PNW'er! Hope to run into you sometime soon, there's more and more of us showing up. Awesome to see someone coming back to the sport in such a capable car.
Ron is a great target have! I'll just say as an argument to still focus on seat time before a bunch of mods, in my experience, a well driven Model 3 should dominate in the wet. I ran yesterday in the rain in and ran 3+ seconds faster than anyone else (60 second course), which I have done multiple other times against many drivers. This was running MPS4's, not some 200TW or less magic tire. Model 3 in the wet is just full cheat mode.
Then when it's dry, we'll be neck and neck. A well set up Model 3 can run really close to the Porsche GT's and Corvette's. I run against some very good drivers on hoosiers and we're usually within 0.5s of one another (either way depending on course) with me running a 200TW.
What's your next event? We should really try and get all the local Model 3's out to one event and have a party. I know a few quick drivers in the Seattle area. We should try and keep this thread alive too:
Seattle Area SCCA-Like Tesla Events
Back in the day, SCCA road rally and solo event options were aplenty in the Puget Sound region. Not only are there not solo and road rally options like yesteryear, local Tesla owners have not seemingly sponsored/developed sporting events. Even when I had my BMW i3, I was able to join the local...
teslamotorsclub.com
Have we decided if that is SCCA EVX legal? The question here was about an EVX compliant car.
I wish I could try one out, I don't feel like track mode is holding me back but now I wonder.
I'd be very surprised if Track Mode at -10 Stability Assist holds anyone back in auto-x from SC or TC intervention.
However...reading MPP's description of their Party Box, it sounds like it effectively replaces Tesla's traction control logic. So in theory, it could have an effect on how the car puts power down even if regular Track Mode isn't directly holding you back with any heavy interventions.
M3P Track Mode traction control with 50/50 Handling Balance seems quite good to me, feels limited mainly by the open diffs, not any software issues, but maybe there's room for improvement still. (Based on my experiences with the M3P so far, I doubt I'll personally ever be limited by Track Mode in any of my driving, but it's a fascinating topic, and for sure if I had a non-P Model 3 I'd be wanting the Party Box.)
On the new-to-autox front, if I'm just starting off to have fun and work on my driving, and I get camber arms + dial in appropriate camber...can I run on 300TW "max performance" street tires without destroying them after a few events? Or is moving to <= 200 TW tires pretty much if I want them to handle the heat and last, like for track days?
However...reading MPP's description of their Party Box, it sounds like it effectively replaces Tesla's traction control logic. So in theory, it could have an effect on how the car puts power down even if regular Track Mode isn't directly holding you back with any heavy interventions.
M3P Track Mode traction control with 50/50 Handling Balance seems quite good to me, feels limited mainly by the open diffs, not any software issues, but maybe there's room for improvement still. (Based on my experiences with the M3P so far, I doubt I'll personally ever be limited by Track Mode in any of my driving, but it's a fascinating topic, and for sure if I had a non-P Model 3 I'd be wanting the Party Box.)
On the new-to-autox front, if I'm just starting off to have fun and work on my driving, and I get camber arms + dial in appropriate camber...can I run on 300TW "max performance" street tires without destroying them after a few events? Or is moving to <= 200 TW tires pretty much if I want them to handle the heat and last, like for track days?
It's the reverse.
You can kill a set 200TW tires really fast. The ~400TW tires like Pilot Sports are really robust. On average you will spend WAY more per run with 200TW tires.
The idea of "lasting" with 200TW tires is kind of a fantasy.
It's really my opinion that running on 300+ TW tires until you are really into the sport and super consistent is not a good way to improve. You have to really know how to use up all the capability of a tire before a grippier tire is useful.
If you run in the rain or cold much, the 200TW's aren't always better anyway. The awesome thing about the 300+'s is just how consistent and broad their performance is.
Oh, and @The Other Dan - Most importantly, how did you handle charging at Packwood? I keep wanting to head down there but can't really figure out how to run with a reasonable charge level. Did you find any L2 plugs on site?
jackmott
Member
The power drop at autocross speeds will be pretty small so may not matter much.
Not in my experience. I drop a sold 1 second on a 60 second course at about 50% SoC. It's a big change and immediately noticeable, and just gets worse from there.
I burn 3-4% per 1 minute run. So 10 runs is 40%.
Packwood events are often 2 days and it is 90 miles away from the nearest supercharger.
I might literally not be able to make it from a SC to Packwood, do 10 runs, and make it back.
Not if he runs Hankook RS4s with some camber. Those things last forever, and likely heat-cycle out before actually wearing down. A solid option for those looking for tons of seat time, w/o spending too much on new tires often.
Packwood Lodge has a 14-50 Nema, which is where I stayed. Talked to the owner/manager who said he's thinking about putting in one or two "fast chargers". Digging more, sounds like it'll be a CCS setup. So maybe in a year or two.
If you're staying up there it's an option, as we get close to Tour, it's booking up. Might also hit up the campgrounds, 10-30 is better than nothing.
But for an AutoX, an RS4 is not a good choice, and a lot of street tires will be faster.
AutoX needs a tire that works in the first corner, or at least the 3rd. The RS4 needs some heat to stick. Your first 1-2 runs will be slow, and then it matters how quick your club gets you back out there if your next runs will be warm enough. It also means as a driver, you can't rely on the tires to be consistent, which makes learning that much harder.
Like you said, they will heat cycle out, particularly in AutoX. I had heat cycled out RE71's and they were slower than my PS4S's even though they still had tread, but my PS4S's had just as many runs on them. RS4's are great at endurance road courses.
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Did you mean that is a good way to improve?
Won't run in the rain or cold.
I should add that I know <= 200 TW tires vary wildly, they're not all of a kind. Some won't last long for either track or street use. But some will/would handily outlast a 300+ TW tire if doing much track time (independent of whether it's actually that much faster than a 300 TW tire)...or at least that was the case with the tires of a decade ago. But autox is different from track and I have no autox experience!
Sounds like I should be fine starting off with 300 TW street tires, not likely to destroy them right away (as long as I keep close tabs on pressures and any uneven wear happening).
Ha, yes. I mean starting with 200TW tires are not a good way to improve.
200TW tires are more fragile. It's really hard to hurt a 400TW tire, pressures and such matter less. What kills PS4S's (And some 200TW tires) is the lack of camber- you can absolutely tear the shoulders off in one day, but you need to be a 10/10ths driver to do that, and I've only ever seen it happen on 1 car out of 6+. There won't be too much you can do about "uneven wear" unless you can tweak camber and toe.
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