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Automatic creep makes it impossible to come to a smooth stop

Do you want creep or no-creep?

  • No creep - the car doesn't move if the accelerator isn't pressed

    Votes: 45 60.0%
  • Creep - the car rolls forwards if the accelerator isn't pressed

    Votes: 30 40.0%

  • Total voters
    75

vfx

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2006
14,790
40
CA CA
I think creep should be disabled as long as the brake pedal is depressed...

This seems like the best solution.
Tesla is worried about people walking away from the car (presumably with key in ignition or MS fob on the seat) and the car being "Live" and can move uncontrollably when the accelerator is pushed. Creep disabled when brake is pushed would still retain the runaway prevention creep implementation. If they can put an accelerometer on the brake lights this firmware change should be cake.
 

hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,385
1,344
Vermont
This seems like the best solution.
Tesla is worried about people walking away from the car (presumably with key in ignition or MS fob on the seat) and the car being "Live" and can move uncontrollably when the accelerator is pushed. Creep disabled when brake is pushed would still retain the runaway prevention creep implementation. If they can put an accelerometer on the brake lights this firmware change should be cake.

Doesn't it already do this? If I press the brake pedal then creep shuts off. That's why we have jerky stops. The problem lies in how it is turned off. If it was more gradual we could come to a smooth stop. No?
 
Alpine

I'm much more concerned about the black hole under the seat that collects any coins or other small objects I have in my pockets, never to be seen again. :crying: Or the piece-of-garbage Alpine unit. :scared: And none of that (certainly not the bump) detracts from the fun of driving the coolest car ever built.

+1 many times over! :biggrin:

That Alpine is an outrageous embarrsement. :mad:
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,278
152
Nevada
+1 many times over! :biggrin:

That Alpine is an outrageous embarrsement. :mad:

Yes! If a firmware update would fix this issue for people, I'm all for that but coming up with a replacement for the Alpine would be great. Maybe Tesla could design their own unit with their Model S experience to replace the Alpine. That would be cool.
 

wycolo

Active Member
May 16, 2012
3,092
428
WA & WY
P > D = loud clunk - this means heavy duty contactor (relay) has been activated. Also same vice versa. Likewise in & out of R (??).

So whatever mods are being proposed here, none should add more contactor activity; all should be done with software/firmware/solid-state devices. So as not to contribute to contactor wearing out at faster rate. Make sense?

I assume loud 'clunk' NOT being created by a 'feel good' noisemaker.
--
 

vfx

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2006
14,790
40
CA CA
Doesn't it already do this? If I press the brake pedal then creep shuts off. That's why we have jerky stops. The problem lies in how it is turned off. If it was more gradual we could come to a smooth stop. No?

As stated upthread #1 the "problem with creep" is that it fights with the brake. This makes the jerky stops. So I would say no, it does not shut off when the brake is depressed.
 

mpt

Electrics are back
Oct 15, 2008
1,746
197
Warren, New Jersey, United States
P > D = loud clunk - this means heavy duty contactor (relay) has been activated. Also same vice versa. Likewise in & out of R (??).

So whatever mods are being proposed here, none should add more contactor activity; all should be done with software/firmware/solid-state devices. So as not to contribute to contactor wearing out at faster rate. Make sense?

I assume loud 'clunk' NOT being created by a 'feel good' noisemaker.
--

That's just the parking pawl engaging and disengaging.
 

vfx

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2006
14,790
40
CA CA
Pawl
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQgyD3qnPVtLC1JtZ94azKtKtxuwWTMsay5b2x_g5GZjQgg6at3UKDT-SKsw.jpg


Parking Pawl
beverly-hillbillies-2.jpg
 

Lloyd

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2011
6,278
2,084
San Luis Obispo, CA
Personally during my drive I found coming to a smoth stop extreemly easy, in fact easier than any car I have driven, and without effort! This should not be an issue for anyone. I believe Tesla got it very right.
 

hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,385
1,344
Vermont
As stated upthread #1 the "problem with creep" is that it fights with the brake. This makes the jerky stops. So I would say no, it does not shut off when the brake is depressed.
It definitely shuts off on my car. Yours may be different. Here's what happens: You brake and slow to 1-2 mph when it transitions from regen to creep. You keep applying brakes but more lightly in hopes of coming to a smooth stop. Meanwhile creep is still on so the brakes are applied more than they need to be if you had no creep. Then suddenly just before final stop, creep shuts off and you come to a jerky stop because your brakes are still applied hard enough to overcome creep, but creep is now off. If you keep your foot on the brake while stopped, creep will stay off. Cinergi described it in post 28 and you can observe the amps drop when fully stopped and creep is off. If they kept creep on a second longer you could stop smoother, but still not perfect.

One solution to the jerky stop would be to transition the creep off a little slower so you could adjust brake pressure accordingly and stop smoothly. Not sure why they don't do that. There may be a minimum amount of power they have to send the motor due to a minimum duty cycle of the PWM electronics, preventing a smoother shut-down of power. Maybe they tried other methods of shutting down creep and it created other problems... So many times I wish I could interview the engineers who worked on this or that.
 

Doug_G

Lead Moderator
Apr 2, 2010
17,881
3,351
Ottawa, Canada
There's a hill near my house, where if I let off the brake the car just sits there. It consumes more power when my foot is off the brake, because the creep is holding it stationary. When I put my foot back down again the power drops back.

Incidentally, the Model S seemed very smooth to me. Maybe they've done it a bit better.
 

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