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Automatic Emergency Braking Failure, the Movie

Chopr147

Active Member
Apr 3, 2016
1,943
1,470
Wantagh, NY
crash into some barricades and then post about it on a public forum then you need to be prepared for some jokes at your expense.

Joke are fine. But, as soon as he admitted falling asleep at the wheel I was waiting for the vitriol. I have been on several car forums over the years and TMC is by far the most self-righteous, arrogant uppity forum.
 

Wingsy

Member
Apr 30, 2019
180
283
Mocksville, NC
Joke are fine. But, as soon as he admitted falling asleep at the wheel I was waiting for the vitriol. I have been on several car forums over the years and TMC is by far the most self-righteous, arrogant uppity forum.

This is nothing compared to what I got on my YouTube post of the video. Some web site (forgot the name) posted a link to my video and misquoted me in saying I blamed AP for the crash, and then sicced their entire pack of rabid dogs on me. Very few read the description of the video before they went into attack mode. I ultimately removed all comments and disabled new ones. I can take the criticism but it irks the hell out of me for someone to not read what happened and what I said about it, and then go off with their own conclusions.
 

bwilson4web

hit the spot
Apr 19, 2019
346
287
Huntsville, AL
TMC is by far . . .
I've reluctantly stopped posting here as the moderators seem to prefer ad hominem instead of facts and data. Not really my problem as there are places where facts and data are important . . . like the Tesla Owner's Forum.

I monitor it in the hope that someday there may be original content. But letting Internet bullies try to shame posters . . . well it suggests reality is not high on their list of priorities.

Bob Wilson
 
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DirtyT3sla

Member
Apr 17, 2019
579
665
Holly
This is nothing compared to what I got on my YouTube post of the video. Some web site (forgot the name) posted a link to my video and misquoted me in saying I blamed AP for the crash, and then sicced their entire pack of rabid dogs on me. Very few read the description of the video before they went into attack mode. I ultimately removed all comments and disabled new ones. I can take the criticism but it irks the hell out of me for someone to not read what happened and what I said about it, and then go off with their own conclusions.

This is the worst. I posted a video of a pickup cutting me off and almost hitting me. I wasn't in AP (stated in the title), and I said nothing about the pickup targeting my EV, but half the comments were "Wow look at this dumb ass Tesla driver in the left lane he started it! This truck wasn't targeting you because you're in Tesla, it's because you suck at driving!" Uh...because I'm in the left lane someone is allowed to almost run into me? Also, I never said anything about being targeted.
 
OP, glad you are okay from this and that no one was seriously hurt. That lane closed light barrier a few cones ahead would have made for a tragedy.

I have a question regarding the surroundings at the time. Were there vehicle(s) behind you when this happened? I could see AEB not occurring if there were vehicles directly behind you - especially if it was a truck behind you at 75mph.

Did your Model 3 start slowing after the first impact?

Also, you are lucky, I saw a smaller vehicle (Prius) hit one of those emergency barrels and veer hard left into the guard rail from it getting caught under the wheel. Surprised the AP did not auto kick off after the first or second hit, but kept you moving straight in the lane.
 

OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,768
4,291
Southern California
As many who have read my posts know, I’m not a fan of Autopilot or NOA. Watching this video only reminds me of why. The system works well enough to lull you into a false sense of security to where I know I personally would lose focus if the car was driving so well that it didn’t require my assistance. Then when I was least expecting it something really bad might happen.

If I have to keep my hands on the wheel the entire time I’m using AP/NOA and be just as alert as if I was driving the car myself, why not just drive the car myself to begin with? I find that driving on AP/NOA is like supervising a student driver. Can I do that for some period of time and keep myself out of trouble...yes. Would I want to be supervising a student driver every time I get behind the wheel...definitely not.

I see no point on wasting money on FSD until it no longer requires driver assistance. According to Elon that should be any day now...
 
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Video appears to show Tesla driver asleep at the wheel on I-5 in Santa Clarita

I think not getting into your Tesla to drive if you are sleep deprived is a good idea. I think not getting into your Tesla to drive if you are subject to micro-sleeps is a good idea. Level 5 FSD is not here yet. We as Tesla drivers need to be responsible citizens and not put other drivers at risk, even if we have no regard for our own safety.
 
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Octo

Member
Jun 28, 2019
386
526
Dallas
Video appears to show Tesla driver asleep at the wheel on I-5 in Santa Clarita

I think not getting into your Tesla to drive if you are sleep deprived is a good idea. I think not getting into your Tesla to drive if you are subject to micro-sleeps is a good idea. Level 5 FSD is not here yet. We as Tesla drivers need to be responsible citizens and not put other drivers at risk, even if we have no regard for our own safety.

‘We as Tesla drivers...’ works if there are a handful but not if the car is sold with “full self driving” (fine print disclaimer) to hundreds of thousands of people. There will be several people disregarding the fine print (as evidenced in the “driver asleep” video you just posted). Just wait until an important person is killed. If it’s a politician or her family then hell will break loose on Tesla’s exaggerated FSD claims.
 
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Reactions: wipster and derotam

derotam

Member
Oct 31, 2018
872
839
Oak Hill, VA
‘We as Tesla drivers...’ works if there are a handful but not if the car is sold with “full self driving” (fine print disclaimer) to hundreds of thousands of people. There will be several people disregarding the fine print (as evidenced in the “driver asleep” video you just posted). Just wait until an important person is killed. If it’s a politician or her family then hell will break loose on Tesla’s exaggerated FSD claims.

It is sold with "Full Self Drive Capability" then gives the specifications and the "fine print" is pretty readily seen when ordering the car and is very clear and not just a bunch of legalize.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,106
9,200
Visalia, CA
...why not just drive the car myself to begin with?...

Because it's much safer for me since I got Autopilot in 2017.

Before Navigation on Autopilot, there were numerous times that I missed the exit when I was talking (in person or on the phone). Not any more thanks to the automation system!

Before Autopilot, I didn't realize that I was not centering the lane even in simple tasks such as adjusting the radio. Worse, there were close calls as I didn't realize the car in front just slowed down.

I always apply a constant light counter-torque to monitor the automation's performance and it is just like a reflex for me to correct it without thinking.


So, to me, it's pretty effortless to supervise the student driver Autopilot. I lose very little effort and I gain so much!

 

Octo

Member
Jun 28, 2019
386
526
Dallas
It is sold with "Full Self Drive Capability" then gives the specifications and the "fine print" is pretty readily seen when ordering the car and is very clear and not just a bunch of legalize.
hahaha. Tell that to the dude from that video.

That was my whole point. If you pitch it as something it really isn’t, and a LOT of people buy it, there will be some that follow the spirit of the pitch and not the letter of the fine print.

And then there are accidents. And lawsuits. And juries. And judges. I sometimes wonder if people like you life in another reality without lawsuits.
 

derotam

Member
Oct 31, 2018
872
839
Oak Hill, VA
hahaha. Tell that to the dude from that video.

That was my whole point. If you pitch it as something it really isn’t, and a LOT of people buy it, there will be some that follow the spirit of the pitch and not the letter of the fine print.

And then there are accidents. And lawsuits. And juries. And judges. I sometimes wonder if people like you life in another reality without lawsuits.

Ohh I know there will be lawsuits, people sue for all kinds of things that they did on their own without thinking before acting.

The pitch never said you can just sit back and fall asleep and the car will do everything for you. The pitch for the future is that but not the here and now.
 

raptor5244

Active Member
May 10, 2019
1,439
1,096
Florida
As many who have read my posts know, I’m not a fan of Autopilot or NOA. Watching this video only reminds me of why. The system works well enough to lull you into a false sense of security to where I know I personally would lose focus if the car was driving so well that it didn’t require my assistance. Then when I was least expecting it something really bad might happen.

If I have to keep my hands on the wheel the entire time I’m using AP/NOA and be just as alert as if I was driving the car myself, why not just drive the car myself to begin with? I find that driving on AP/NOA is like supervising a student driver. Can I do that for some period of time and keep myself out of trouble...yes. Would I want to be supervising a student driver every time I get behind the wheel...definitely not.

I see no point on wasting money on FSD until it no longer requires driver assistance. According to Elon that should be any day now...

Well stated. It is all about setting proper expectations at this point as the technology is still evolving. While it is fun to be a part of this revolution we have to be realistic and disciplined. Fancy terms like neural network and machine learning mean nothing more than some software developers sitting around programming the car to execute certain commands based on the camera footage they have collected. When it screws up, they look at the footage and try to reprogram the the system to execute a different behavior the next time it sees that pattern.

As you stated, AP requires too much human supervision at this point to offer much value. It is like a 10 year driving. He/she may be able to keep it in between the lines but once a "driving situation" occurs it all goes south real quick. Avoiding potholes, yielding to first responders, dealing with construction situations, lane closures, timing yellow lights, changing driving behavior based on weather conditions, seeing pedestrians, animals, bikers, anticipating what will happen next based on experience, etc.

What they should do is activate that internal camera above the rear view mirror and program it so that if it looks like you have nodded off then it sends a "wake the [email protected]#!! up" alert through the audio system. They should use the tech to make "humans" better drivers before making the huge leap to full self driving. Marketing this tech as advanced drivers assistants and safety features would probably sell more Teslas than marketing AP/FSD because for each person that thinks vision of AP/FSD is great there are about ten others that are afraid of it.
 

bwilson4web

hit the spot
Apr 19, 2019
346
287
Huntsville, AL
Source: Perfect is the enemy of good - Wikipedia

Dans ses écrits, un sage Italien
Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.


(In his writings, a wise Italian
says that the best is the enemy of the good)
. . .
Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible and so, as increasing effort results in diminishing returns, further activity becomes increasingly inefficient.

If some choose to ignore and criticize what is available, their choice. But I'd rather learn what it can do and reap the benefits even with the risks.

Source_2: Applied and Pure Sciences - Find Courses & Universities

  1. The difference between Applied and Pure Sciences is that Applied Sciences focuses on the scientific knowledge of nature, it is more related to engineering and technology.
  2. Pure sciences is more related to theories and predictions to understand the world of nature, often performed in a laboratory.
  3. Even though there is a difference between these two forms of science, they are still used together . . .
Those who accomplish something like Elon Musk get their hands dirty to find out what works and doesn't. Then we share our lessons learned even with braggarts who only complain.

Jonathan Livingston Seagull written by Richard Bach:

Part One of the book finds young Jonathan Livingston frustrated with the meaningless materialism, conformity, and limitation of the seagull life. He is seized with a passion for flight of all kinds, and his soul soars as he experiments with exhilarating challenges of daring aerial feats. Eventually, his lack of conformity to the limited seagull life leads him into conflict with his flock, and they turn their backs on him, casting him out of their society and exiling him. Not deterred by this, Jonathan continues his efforts to reach higher and higher flight goals,

That pretty well defines the difference between the AutoPilot critics and those who explore and investigate what it can do.

Bob Wilson
 
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raptor5244

Active Member
May 10, 2019
1,439
1,096
Florida
Source: Perfect is the enemy of good - Wikipedia

Dans ses écrits, un sage Italien
Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.


(In his writings, a wise Italian
says that the best is the enemy of the good)
. . .
Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible and so, as increasing effort results in diminishing returns, further activity becomes increasingly inefficient.

If some choose to ignore and criticize what is available, their choice. But I'd rather learn what it can do and reap the benefits even with the risks.

Source_2: Applied and Pure Sciences - Find Courses & Universities

  1. The difference between Applied and Pure Sciences is that Applied Sciences focuses on the scientific knowledge of nature, it is more related to engineering and technology.
  2. Pure sciences is more related to theories and predictions to understand the world of nature, often performed in a laboratory.
  3. Even though there is a difference between these two forms of science, they are still used together . . .
Those who accomplish something like Elon Musk get their hands dirty to find out what works and doesn't. Then we share our lessons learned even with braggarts who only complain.

Jonathan Livingston Seagull written by Richard Bach:

Part One of the book finds young Jonathan Livingston frustrated with the meaningless materialism, conformity, and limitation of the seagull life. He is seized with a passion for flight of all kinds, and his soul soars as he experiments with exhilarating challenges of daring aerial feats. Eventually, his lack of conformity to the limited seagull life leads him into conflict with his flock, and they turn their backs on him, casting him out of their society and exiling him. Not deterred by this, Jonathan continues his efforts to reach higher and higher flight goals,

That pretty well defines the difference between the AutoPilot critics and those who explore and investigate what it can do.

Bob Wilson

How would you know? It appears you are usually asleep at the wheel. Literally.
 

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