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Automatic emergency braking

Discussion in 'Model S' started by eye.surgeon, May 2, 2017.

  1. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    Can anyone point to any examples of automatic emergency braking working in AP1 (or AP2 for that matter now that it's enabled). I've had my MS with AP1 for 2.5 yrs, and although I've triggered the audible alert many times, I've never once experienced actual emergency braking. By now I would expect there to be multiple youtube videos of emergency braking in action, but I have yet to see one that clearly demonstrates it. I've seen some that show it not working in test environments, ie cardboard boxes.

    And while we're at it can someone explain why the emergency braking is apparently just mitigating/slowing the collision speed rather than avoidance. Subaru's eyesight and several other systems have been offering full accident avoidance emergency braking for some time, some models cost less than the options cost on my model S.
     
  2. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    full disclosure, I love my car, just curious with all this recent AEB talk.
     
  3. lunitiks

    lunitiks Memba

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  4. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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  5. BrettS

    BrettS Member

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    Unfortunately my understanding is that this is a liablility issue. At least initially when AEB was introduced the lawyers were afraid that if they promised accident avoidance and a car had an accident anyway that they would be sued. Instead, by only promising to lessen the impact speed they couldn't get sued because it was much more difficult to define or show that the system didn't do anything, since there was an accident anyway. I don't know if this is really the case or not, nor how the other companies that are promising accident avoidance are getting around it.
     
  6. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    In many cases of an impending accident, slamming the brakes might not be the best solution. Think about a case where, say on a highway, the car in front stops abruptly and there's an 18-wheeler behind you. Your car engaging AEB might avoid hitting the car in front only to be rear-ended by the 18-wheeler. IMO, it's best to allow the driver to have full control until the accident is unavoidable. Delaying AEB until the very last second (as is done by Tesla and some other manufacturers) makes sense to me in this regard. The more proactive AEB approach (used by Subaru, Mercedes etc.) may avoid some accidents but also prevent the driver from maneuvering out of some others. In general, in the hands of a capable driver, the Tesla approach seems better to me.
     
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  7. Sousagil90D

    Sousagil90D Member

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    My model S has 20.000km and for the first time this weekend I had an AEB experience, despite hearing those "alerts" several times.
    The car in front on me stopped suddently and i used all the margin I had because I was looking at the mirror to check that the car driving behind me was going to stop. Suddently my car hit the brakes by itself. It's easy to know when AEB is activated because the braking pedal gets "loose", like you applied a lot of downforce to it.
     
    • Informative x 1
  8. Edgewood Dome

    Edgewood Dome Member

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    So, it looks like the firmware roll out has stopped, Not many folks getting a version with AEB according to the Firmware tracker. I know I don't have it yet.
     
  9. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    I know, the trickle of 16.35 and 11.45 is down to nothing... one each today (that are being tracked) as of now, ten total yesterday. And nothing else rolling out to the tracked cars (for 8.1). Weird...
     
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  10. Pinot.Noir

    Pinot.Noir Member

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    Likely monitoring the few cars they send the updates to before sending it en masse in case there are any glaring issues. All I know is they haven't selected me to be one of their beta mules.....yet.
     
  11. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I've never had it activate, but I consider it a good thing as it means there are very few false positives with AP1.

    As to the videos online I'm never really sure if its AEB or TACC. People use TACC so much it's hard for AEB to get any credit for a save.

    I was hoping someone would try running into a car shaped foam or something to test to see if AEB activates. Unless you're willing to get really close to hitting something you might never see AEB activate.
     
  12. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I'm not really sure the Subaru system is all that more proactive.

    What I like about the subaru system is it clearly states the speed differential that it can stop from (around 30mph). Where Tesla leaves that up in the air, and simply says it will decrease the speed by 25mph. The primary drawback of the Subaru is it's vision only and is likely more prone to false positives.

    Both systems are listed as crash mitigation systems. Where unless the speed differential is low they won't prevent the crash, but they will make it less severe.

    In any case the biggest benefit of these systems isn't AEB itself, but ACC. What ACC brings is it increases the distances between cars driving down the freeway and this prevents a lot of the pile ups that result from people following too closely.

    Odds are I won't get hit from beyond (unless the person is texting) because I myself provided a decent amount of cushion to begin with (setting of 3-5 on TACC).
     
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  13. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    According to Elon in his resent TED talk, visual/camera based systems are orders of magnitude better than human drivers. So I wouldn't consider Subaru's camera-based system to be a significant limiting factor.
     
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  14. FlyF4

    FlyF4 Member

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    I can give you a perfect example of automatic emergency braking. I scream and the wife slams on the brakes :eek:
     
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  15. somnambule

    somnambule Member

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    I think camera-based systems can some day be orders of magnitude better than some humans. We certainly aren't there yet (unless Elon's Model S has a super-secret AP4 that's vastly better than anything we've seen with AP/AP2).
     
  16. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    nah elon isn't gonna drive on a car that could potentially kill him ;) he just uses his spaceship or teleporter for that lol.
     
  17. Carspotter Daily

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    I filmed a video on this exact feature!

    Here you go!
     
  18. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    You'll see a small message saying "emergency braking in progress" on the IC if it's AEB. Otherwise it's just TACC.
     
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  19. FlyF4

    FlyF4 Member

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    It would be nice if the Tesla could have a quick voice announcement for critical issues. Nobody is going to be looking for a small message on a display when they are is shock looking at what is happening up ahead.:eek:
     
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  20. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    Also, would someone knowledgeable please explain why Tesla switches off brake assist when driver attempts to maneuver around the obstacle, while for example Volvo tries to additionally assist the maneuvre? With traction control the rule of thumb is to keep brake pressed while maneuvring around obstacle. Thanks.
     

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