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Automobile Mag: Quick Drive: Tesla Model 3 Performance AWD

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Funkmobile, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

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    All available evidence says software limited.... which is basically "free"... rather than building a physically different motor that adds a ton of cost/complexity to manufacturing, supply chain, repairs, etc...
     
  2. Swampgator

    Swampgator Active Member

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    It's most likely the identical motor software downrated.
     
  3. Sonic86

    Sonic86 Member

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    My data is like Elons

    Made up :)
     
    • Funny x 4
  4. ebmcs03

    ebmcs03 Active Member

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    So eventually they will unlock it like the S and give people MAX performance. No need to buy the P model 3 version.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  5. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely certain not to be the case.

    The S was never unlocked to offer equivalent P performance (and in that case they have physically different parts anyway).


    That said- it's certainly possible (even likely as more EVs hit the market in this segment) that they will offer SOME free performance improvement via a software update that still leaves the P model significantly quicker, which is what they did on the S.

    And I suppose if there's a business case they might offer a "full" unlock on the non-P AWD to match P levels but it'd have to be more expensive than getting the P from the factory (see also how EAP and FSD cost significantly more after delivery and they too are just software updates)
     
  6. PhatCat

    PhatCat Kisco Kid

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    Do you really think Tesla hasn't track tested this car? Despite reports seeing it on the track.

    Do you think the current specs are the final story? Despite testers that have seen a Track Mode on some cars that is still being tweaked before being released to public.

    Do you really think there is no "insane" or "ludicrous" or "plaid" mode in the future?

    Then you don't know Elon as well as you think you do.
     
  7. Phrixotrichus

    Phrixotrichus Member

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    yes, but they lose a LOT of their "oomph" past 130kmh.
    Ofc that`s critisizing on a ridiculous level :D
     
  8. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    Might also be binned - they take the ones with worse performance that either don't meet spec or barely meet it and give them to the AWD cars, like Intel with CPUs.
     
  9. eladts

    eladts Member

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    #29 eladts, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
    The EPA provides the maximum power for each motor separately. It is wrong to just add those two numbers to get the total maximum power, as the total power may be limited by the battery and/or the two motors reach their peak power at different speeds. Tesla used this method to get the 691 hp figure for the Model S P85D, but this backfired and eventually Tesla stopped advertising this misleading number.
     
    • Informative x 2
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  10. ebmcs03

    ebmcs03 Active Member

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    So what’s the true HP for AWD and P version?
     
  11. eladts

    eladts Member

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    Only 30 hp difference between LR AWD and P simply doesn't make sense. The P having 450 hp, LR AWD having 346 hp and LR RWD having 271 hp as reported by Autoweek make much more sense given their respective 0-60 times.
     
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  12. spesler

    spesler Member

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    The Autoweek numbers also agree with reports that the AWD has a smaller rear motor inverter than both the AWD-P and RWD.
     
  13. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

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    They've explicitly said they bin the motors- but yields on electric motors are going to be tremendously less variable than things like 14 nanometer CPUs... it'd be pretty surprising if there's much difference at all between any 2 working drive units as far as output.

    So mostly binned is likely a marketing thing ("we select the very best for you!") and might marginally mitigate warranty cost as well (This one can handle 2% more power so maybe it'll fail 2% less often!)
     
  14. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    #34 e-FTW, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
    You are right. 480hp it is.
    But only 30hp more than the AWD version does not make a lot of sense. Maybe the AWD is limited in what it can actually deliver to the road?

    [Edit: meant to say it does NOT make sense]
     
  15. Swampgator

    Swampgator Active Member

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    I think eladts makes a good point. Maybe with the software running the whole show we can only really get useful information from actual dyno testing. And even that is debatable if you read some of the dyno threads here.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Not smaller, less efficient/ tested so SW limited to a lower peak current/ power.

    Motor magnets are variable. So are the SiC drive devices integrated into the DU. Depending on the part type (IGBT or FET), there could be 20% variation in the full conduction parameter (which increase losses by 40% for MOSFET type). Some parameter get worse with higher temperatures, so the effect amplifies.

    General comment, the max power number is less important to low end acceleration than the peak current/ torque number.
     
  17. spesler

    spesler Member

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    @mongo not to restart the ongoing argument, but the claim that the AWD uses a physically different 500A rear inverter, while the other two cars use 800A, does align with the Autoweek hp numbers. This is not to say that binning and sorting are not occurring, but rather that there may also be a hardware difference.

    I have not seen evidence firsthand, so can’t assert it to be true, but do tend to believe. There are claims that the Tesla parts catalog confirms this (shows different part numbers.)
     
    • Like x 1
  18. clostridium

    clostridium Member

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    How about a middle ground answer to this - they are physically the same inverters but some are derated to lower current and then stamped with a different part number so Tesla can make sure the right parts get on the right vehicles. That derating is based on testing like what @mongo references
     
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  19. Glamisduner

    Glamisduner Active Member

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    same motor, just neutered.
     
  20. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Or they could be binning against the RWD drive units.
     
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