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Autonomous Car Progress

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by stopcrazypp, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Well-Known Member

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    I watched the video. No it does not. Where in the video, do we see that the safety driver disengaged?
     
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  2. mspisars

    mspisars Active Member

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    He grabbed the steering wheel -- screen caps in that same thread (before and after).
     
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  3. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Well-Known Member

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    Waymo safety drivers always keep their hands hovering just on the wheel like they are supposed. There was nothing that suggested that the safety driver had to "grab the wheel" to avoid a crash.

    Watch the video again. The Waymo creeped forward, stopped at a stop sign and then goes when it is the Waymo's turn. Nothing abnormal. The Waymo does not "almost crash" like Whole Mars says. He is spreading FUD. Whole Mars Catalog hates Waymo with a passion. He is not a reliable source.
     
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  4. mspisars

    mspisars Active Member

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    There are 2 stops in the video, the stop in question is for the 2nd intersection. The oncoming car got annoyed waiting for Waymo car and went first, as Waymo started to go as well.
    If you take off your tin-foil hat, you can see that there was an intervention there and the screen-grab from the video shows the hands appearing on the wheel.

    Waymo has already addressed "safety drivers always keep their hands hovering just on the wheel like they are supposed" with their OWN video proving this statement false.
    Safety drivers are supposed to keep their hands on/near/ready, but reality is a b!tc#...
     
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  5. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Well-Known Member

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    I was looking at the first stop.

    In the second stop, yes, both the oncoming car and the Waymo appear to move at the same time and then the Waymo stops to avoid a possible collision. Maybe it was an intervention or maybe the car's FSD stopped on its own. We don't know since we don't know if the Waymo was in autonomous mode. A video from inside the Waymo would be better to show what was happening.

    But even if it was an intervention, so what? Nobody is saying that Waymo has zero interventions. We know Waymo does have interventions, although they are extremely rare. And safety drivers are trained to play it safe. So maybe this was an instance where both cars started to move and to be cautious, the safety driver intervened "just in case", which there are trained to do.

    FSD Beta has dozens of interventions all the time for things that Waymo handles perfectly.
     
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  6. mspisars

    mspisars Active Member

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    If he's a Waymo FUDster then you're a Waymo fanboi apologist... "just in case".

    This was a direct (in-real-life) comparison of 2 FSD systems at the same intersection...
    This isn't a sandbox in the desert anymore...
     
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  7. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Well-Known Member

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    I make no apologies for being a fan of Waymo. Waymo has the most autonomous miles than any other company, has the most autonomous experience than any other company, has the best safety record of any robotaxi and has fully driverless robotaxis available to the public. Yeah, I am big fan of that.
     
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  8. ThomasD

    ThomasD Member

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    I wonder if the waymo cars could handle the weather conditions we are having in some states better than humans
     
  9. Ludalicious

    Ludalicious Active Member

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    This post is clearly fact based. Yet someone finds a way to disagree with facts. Only a very argumentative person disagree's with fact's...
     
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  10. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Well-Known Member

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    #3730 S4WRXTTCS, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
    Here are the facts from the video.

    It was Waymo's turn to go
    The Waymo was a bit slow to go
    The other driver went outside of their turn to go
    The Waymo safety driver does appear to react so it appears to be an intervention, but we don't know if they did in fact do so.

    Beyond that everything is speculation.

    With that being said we already know from previous videos a lot about the two systems. The Waymo system is pretty famous for being too careful, and causing situations that wouldn't normally happen with a human driver. So what happened wasn't exactly surprising.

    With the FSD beta we already know from other videos the numerous scenarios where a driver has to intervene, and some of these involve not getting going fast enough. This is important as the Waymo driver should have intervened before the other car even went just to get going.

    For FSD what I'd love to have is a ping when its time to go from a stop sign. That could come well before the FSD beta got a general release, and that could help me assess how good it was.
     
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  11. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Well-Known Member

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    Well said.

    I think a lot of FSD systems struggle a bit with this problem of how assertive to be and when. Too cautious and the autonomous car can cause problems with other drivers getting annoyed but be too assertive and the autonomous car might get into an accident. I think many FSD systems err on the side of being too cautious for now because it is overall safer. Human drivers develop good experience and "intuition". With time, I think robotaxis will also get smarter about when to be assertive and when to be cautious.
     
  12. renim

    renim Active Member

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    fwiw, what about in car lidar, to sense occupants intentions
    LG Innotek
    (as I understand it, this is the supplier of ToF for apple products)
     
  13. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Active Member

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    Just use an IR interior camera like every car out there except for Tesla. It's a solved problem.
     
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  14. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't only Cadillac's Supercruise do that (at least for Level 2)? None of the other level 2 systems do that, they all use the steering wheel just like Tesla does.
     
  15. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Active Member

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    Most modern cars have a driver monitoring system with IR cameras. Doesn't really have anything to do with cruise control.
     
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  16. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #3736 stopcrazypp, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
    Given this thread is in the AP thread I presumed you were talking about level 2 systems. Driver monitoring systems that just give a warning ping is not that relevant if it's not used also for level 2 (kind of like how forward collision warning isn't relevant given it's an independent system that doesn't affect the ACC system).

    Wiki article also suggests it's not common for systems to use a infrared camera, so I'm not sure where you got "Most modern cars" have it (can you show where you saw that claim?)
    Driver Monitoring System - Wikipedia

    I looked up the driver drowsiness systems and almost all of them use the steering and other cues to detect it (some using cameras use to monitor the road, not the driver). The other wiki article above lists the ones that monitor with a driver facing camera, and other than the Cadillac, the only ones using it for ADAS is some Fords and Mercedes coming out for the 2021 Model year.
    Driver drowsiness detection - Wikipedia

    The two companies shown using cameras for driver attention detection (but not level 2) is Lexus and BMW and it's optional.

    I also looked up the most popular cars for sale like the Toyota Camry and Honda Civic and they don't offer an infared driver monitoring camera. I'm willing to stand corrected, but need to see some evidence that "most modern cars" have such a thing.
     
  17. hgmichna

    hgmichna Member

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    Tesla's strategy is still Full Self Driving, which does not require driver monitoring.

    Let's see how that will turn out.

    Note that Tesla cars, at least the Model 3, already have an interior camera, currently not used. Not sure whether infrared lighting is available.
     
  18. J1mbo

    J1mbo Active Member

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    IFAIK there is no IR source for the M3 selfie cam. We have seen daylight examples of it's output from the hacking community, but no nightime examples yet.

    See: First look at the view from the interior camera in your Tesla Model 3 - Drive Tesla Canada
     
  19. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Senior Software Engineer

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    BMW uses it for their L2 system. Its called Extended Traffic Jam Assistant.
    Upcoming cars that will use it for their L2 within/around a year from now are Lucid, Mercedes, Volvo, Ford's Mach-E.
     
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  20. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Active Member

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    I've seen it in Mercedes and also Citroen. Seems to be fairly commonplace. I believe Subaru has it as well?
     

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