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Autonomous Car Progress

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He grabbed the steering wheel -- screen caps in that same thread (before and after).

Waymo safety drivers always keep their hands hovering just on the wheel like they are supposed. There was nothing that suggested that the safety driver had to "grab the wheel" to avoid a crash.

Watch the video again. The Waymo creeped forward, stopped at a stop sign and then goes when it is the Waymo's turn. Nothing abnormal. The Waymo does not "almost crash" like Whole Mars says. He is spreading FUD. Whole Mars Catalog hates Waymo with a passion. He is not a reliable source.
 
Waymo safety drivers always keep their hands hovering just on the wheel like they are supposed. There was nothing that suggested that the safety driver had to "grab the wheel" to avoid a crash.
There are 2 stops in the video, the stop in question is for the 2nd intersection. The oncoming car got annoyed waiting for Waymo car and went first, as Waymo started to go as well.
If you take off your tin-foil hat, you can see that there was an intervention there and the screen-grab from the video shows the hands appearing on the wheel.

Waymo has already addressed "safety drivers always keep their hands hovering just on the wheel like they are supposed" with their OWN video proving this statement false.
Safety drivers are supposed to keep their hands on/near/ready, but reality is a b!tc#...
 
There are 2 stops in the video, the stop in question is for the 2nd intersection. The oncoming car got annoyed waiting for Waymo car and went first, as Waymo started to go as well.
If you take off your tin-foil hat, you can see that there was an intervention there and the screen-grab from the video shows the hands appearing on the wheel.

Waymo had a already addressed "safety drivers always keep their hands hovering just on the wheel like they are supposed" with a their OWN video proving this statement false.
Safety drivers are supposed to keep their hands on/near/ready, but reality is a b!tc#...

I was looking at the first stop.

In the second stop, yes, both the oncoming car and the Waymo appear to move at the same time and then the Waymo stops to avoid a possible collision. Maybe it was an intervention or maybe the car's FSD stopped on its own. We don't know since we don't know if the Waymo was in autonomous mode. A video from inside the Waymo would be better to show what was happening.

But even if it was an intervention, so what? Nobody is saying that Waymo has zero interventions. We know Waymo does have interventions, although they are extremely rare. And safety drivers are trained to play it safe. So maybe this was an instance where both cars started to move and to be cautious, the safety driver intervened "just in case", which there are trained to do.

FSD Beta has dozens of interventions all the time for things that Waymo handles perfectly.
 
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But even if it was an intervention, so what? Nobody is saying that Waymo has zero interventions. We know Waymo does have interventions, although they are extremely rare. And safety drivers are trained to play it safe. So maybe this was an instance where both cars started to move and to be cautious, the safety driver intervened "just in case", which there are trained to do.

FSD Beta has dozens of interventions all the time for things that Waymo handles perfectly.
If he's a Waymo FUDster then you're a Waymo fanboi apologist... "just in case".

FSD Beta has dozens of interventions all the time for things that Waymo handles perfectly.
This was a direct (in-real-life) comparison of 2 FSD systems at the same intersection...
This isn't a sandbox in the desert anymore...
 
If he's a Waymo FUDster then you're a Waymo fanboi apologist... "just in case".

I make no apologies for being a fan of Waymo. Waymo has the most autonomous miles than any other company, has the most autonomous experience than any other company, has the best safety record of any robotaxi and has fully driverless robotaxis available to the public. Yeah, I am big fan of that.
 
I make no apologies for being a fan of Waymo. Waymo has the most autonomous miles than any other company, has the most autonomous experience than any other company, has the best safety record of any robotaxi and has fully driverless robotaxis available to the public. Yeah, I am big fan of that.

This post is clearly fact based. Yet someone finds a way to disagree with facts. Only a very argumentative person disagree's with fact's...
 
This post is clearly fact based. Yet someone finds a way to disagree with facts. Only a very argumentative person disagree's with fact's...

Here are the facts from the video.

It was Waymo's turn to go
The Waymo was a bit slow to go
The other driver went outside of their turn to go
The Waymo safety driver does appear to react so it appears to be an intervention, but we don't know if they did in fact do so.

Beyond that everything is speculation.

With that being said we already know from previous videos a lot about the two systems. The Waymo system is pretty famous for being too careful, and causing situations that wouldn't normally happen with a human driver. So what happened wasn't exactly surprising.

With the FSD beta we already know from other videos the numerous scenarios where a driver has to intervene, and some of these involve not getting going fast enough. This is important as the Waymo driver should have intervened before the other car even went just to get going.

For FSD what I'd love to have is a ping when its time to go from a stop sign. That could come well before the FSD beta got a general release, and that could help me assess how good it was.
 
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Here are the facts from the video.

It was Waymo's turn to go
The Waymo was a bit slow to go
The other driver went outside of their turn to go
The Waymo safety driver does appear to react so it appears to be an intervention, but we don't know if they did in fact do so.

Beyond that everything is speculation.

With that being said we already know from previous videos a lot about the two systems. The Waymo system is pretty famous for being too careful, and causing situations that wouldn't normally happen with a human driver. So what happened wasn't exactly surprising.

With the FSD beta we already know from other videos the numerous scenarios where a driver has to intervene, and some of these involve not getting going fast enough. This is important as the Waymo driver should have intervened before the other car even went just to get going.

For FSD what I'd love to have is a ping when its time to go from a stop sign. That could come well before the FSD beta got a general release, and that could help me assess how good it was.

Well said.

I think a lot of FSD systems struggle a bit with this problem of how assertive to be and when. Too cautious and the autonomous car can cause problems with other drivers getting annoyed but be too assertive and the autonomous car might get into an accident. I think many FSD systems err on the side of being too cautious for now because it is overall safer. Human drivers develop good experience and "intuition". With time, I think robotaxis will also get smarter about when to be assertive and when to be cautious.
 
Most modern cars have a driver monitoring system with IR cameras. Doesn't really have anything to do with cruise control.
Given this thread is in the AP thread I presumed you were talking about level 2 systems. Driver monitoring systems that just give a warning ping is not that relevant if it's not used also for level 2 (kind of like how forward collision warning isn't relevant given it's an independent system that doesn't affect the ACC system).

Wiki article also suggests it's not common for systems to use a infrared camera, so I'm not sure where you got "Most modern cars" have it (can you show where you saw that claim?)
Driver Monitoring System - Wikipedia

I looked up the driver drowsiness systems and almost all of them use the steering and other cues to detect it (some using cameras use to monitor the road, not the driver). The other wiki article above lists the ones that monitor with a driver facing camera, and other than the Cadillac, the only ones using it for ADAS is some Fords and Mercedes coming out for the 2021 Model year.
Driver drowsiness detection - Wikipedia

The two companies shown using cameras for driver attention detection (but not level 2) is Lexus and BMW and it's optional.

I also looked up the most popular cars for sale like the Toyota Camry and Honda Civic and they don't offer an infared driver monitoring camera. I'm willing to stand corrected, but need to see some evidence that "most modern cars" have such a thing.
 
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Tesla's strategy is still Full Self Driving, which does not require driver monitoring.

Let's see how that will turn out.

Note that Tesla cars, at least the Model 3, already have an interior camera, currently not used. Not sure whether infrared lighting is available.
 
Tesla's strategy is still Full Self Driving, which does not require driver monitoring.

Let's see how that will turn out.

Note that Tesla cars, at least the Model 3, already have an interior camera, currently not used. Not sure whether infrared lighting is available.

IFAIK there is no IR source for the M3 selfie cam. We have seen daylight examples of it's output from the hacking community, but no nightime examples yet.

See: First look at the view from the interior camera in your Tesla Model 3 - Drive Tesla Canada