Daniel in SD
(supervised)
He says why. The lead car gets too far away (because the system is limited to 40mph). Keep in mind that the car also has a regular Autopilot like system that works up to 130mph.
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Autonomous Car Progress
- Thread starter stopcrazypp
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- Autonomous Vehicles
Terminator857
Active Member
Full self driving implies full self driving and not partially self driving.
Elon (Dec 2020): I'm extremely confident of achieving full autonomy and releasing it, next year.
Host: We are discussing level 5 autonomy?
Elon: Yes.
Elon has stated we should be expecting an unsupervised system many times.
Host: We are discussing level 5 autonomy?
Elon: Yes.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Don't confuse marketing terms with functionality.
This has been beaten to death.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
So, would you say the marketing term is misleading?
The funny thing is I actually don't think it's misleading because FSD Beta is clearly intended to be full self-driving, it just hasn't achieved the safety level necessary to be used without a safety driver yet.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Ofcourse it is !So, would you say the marketing term is misleading?
Like almost all marketing terms.
That is the long term objective. Clearly that is not the current design intent.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Does Happy Meal imply it cures depression?
Does Diaper Genie imply it grants wishes?
You're gonna REALLY be disappointed in a Radio Flyer, which neither receives radio NOR flies.
Tesla pretty clearly spells out what the package they currently sell as FSD does on the same page you buy it from, including the fact it is NOT autonomous and requires human supervision.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
The day Diaper Genie goes wide release it will be the biggest asset value increase in history.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The marketing term has already been labeled misleading in countries with actual consumer protection laws.So, would you say the marketing term is misleading?
The funny thing is I actually don't think it's misleading because FSD Beta is clearly intended to be full self-driving, it just hasn't achieved the safety level necessary to be used without a safety driver yet.
Tesla could have easily marketed FSD more its journey than a destination, but they went with the destination. Most of us are likely okay with the journey, and bought it with the journey in mind. But, quite a few people got suckered by the destination.
I figure I have another year or so of the journey until Tesla tells me that my time is up, and I have to pay money to upgrade to something else to continue the journey.
I predicted that driverless Waymo with no NDA will be available late 2022 and we might be months away from that. Its hilarious reading back through the posts of all the people who believed it will take waymo the same amount of time it took them in phoenix to go driverless. The question i asked then i will restate now. After Waymo goes driverless in SF what then? Not surprising, the goal post will again be shifted just like it did when they went driverless in phoenix.
"Product updates like these are the result of careful improvements we’ve been making to the Waymo Driver as we expand our operations with the feedback from our Trusted Testers. As a result, we’re now ready to begin introducing the Waymo Driver in fully autonomous mode—with no specialist behind the wheel—in the city as a major step on our path to deploying a fully autonomous commercial service. We’ve made this decision after carefully benchmarking the Waymo Driver’s performance against our safety evaluation methodologies "
To our fellow San Franciscans
Our mission at Waymo is to make it safer and easier for people and things to get where they’re going. It’s in our name, which originated from the belief that there must be a better way forward in mobility.
blog.waymo.com
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I predicted that driverless Waymo with no NDA will be available late 2022 and we might be months away from that. Its hilarious reading back through the posts of all the people who believed it will take waymo the same amount of time it took them in phoenix to go driverless. The question i asked then i will restate now. After Waymo goes driverless in SF what then? Not surprising, the goal post will again be shifted just like it did when they went driverless in phoenix.
"Product updates like these are the result of careful improvements we’ve been making to the Waymo Driver as we expand our operations with the feedback from our Trusted Testers. As a result, we’re now ready to begin introducing the Waymo Driver in fully autonomous mode—with no specialist behind the wheel—in the city as a major step on our path to deploying a fully autonomous commercial service. We’ve made this decision after carefully benchmarking the Waymo Driver’s performance against our safety evaluation methodologies "
To our fellow San Franciscans
Our mission at Waymo is to make it safer and easier for people and things to get where they’re going. It’s in our name, which originated from the belief that there must be a better way forward in mobility.
This is great news. Just as I predicted! As yes, Waymo did it much faster than they did in Chandler. They did in 6 months what took years to do in Chandler which is very encouraging for Waymo being able to scale in the future. It also means we should get to see some videos of the 5th Gen I-Pace in SF in driverless mode fairly soon now. Yeah!
I also think this line is very important:
Waymo has taken a very methodical and deliberate approach to scaling that focuses on safety. They are following their safety methodology to a tee. And IMO, it is working very well to ensure a safe and smooth rollout of their driverless service because we have not had any major accidents of a driverless Waymo. So, yeah, Waymo might be scaling slower but they are scaling safely and that is crucial.
It is also very interesting to see the specific improvements they made based on rider feedback:
What are the chances of WAYMO operating in all major cities in the US within the next 2 years
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Close to zero. But why does it matter? Why 2 years? Just because Waymo won't be in all major US cities in the next 2 years is not a failure. L4/L5 is one of the hardest engineering problems we've ever faced and nobody has solved it yet. The fact is that nobody is going to have L4 in all major US cities in the next 2 years, probably not in the next 5 years. If Waymo can be in all major US cities in 10 years, it would be a huge accomplishment.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Doesn’t matter - I’m sure the people who post here in support of Waymo will let us know even if it takes two decades, Waymo has already solved FSD
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
This claim is.... exaggerated. By quite a lot.
AFAIK the only place anything like what you claim has happened is in ONE country (Germany).
And it only happened in ONE regional court.
And it was over the term autopilot, not FSD, so the court clearly got the whole ruling wrong.
And AFAIK led to no actual action, and AFAIK Tesla, rightly, continues using that term even in the EU.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
You are wrong. Yes, Waymo has remote monitors but they never control the cars. So the cars are still fully autonomous since the cars are always doing all the driving tasks on their own.
They monitor the vehicle and can issue "macro" commands (like directing it what route to go), but they don't appear to have a way to remotely take direct control of the wheel/pedals and control the car that way.
That's why with the traffic cone incident, they had to send an employee to "rescue" the car (couldn't just take over remotely).
Waymo self-driving taxi confused by traffic cones flees help
Exactly!
Plus they started serious testing in SF in 2021. Before then you would never see Waymos in SF. They tested only in Mountain View. Last time they were testing in SF was in 2009 when they were just trying to figure out if this AV thing was even possible. So we kinda have a timeline where they went from serious testing in 2021 to deploying driverless test fleets in 2022. So around ~12 months. This is with the added difficulty of doing this while moving to a new platform (gen 5) with dozens of new sensors and sensor type that needed retraining.
So it took them roughly 12 months to go driverless in a new city. Maybe in 2023 it will take them 9 months and in 2024, 6 months then 2025, 3 month, finally 2026 just 1 month. You get the picture.
This was supposed to be impossible according to tesla fans. You shouldn't be able to take your lessons from one city and port it into another. Yet here we are. (Moderator Edit)
Expanding our testing in San Francisco
Waymo’s story starts in the San Francisco Bay Area. Since early 2009, when we completed our first 1,000 autonomous miles across California, we’ve driven the length and breadth of the region, becoming intimately familiar with the many unique challenges of driving in San Francisco and the...
blog.waymo.com
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bradtem
Robocar consultant
Waymo has said that it has fewer remote monitors than cars, but has declined to say how many fewer. Obviously the goal will be to have a large ratio. But they never drive the cars remotely, they just solve strategic problems, usually when the car asks.
While expanding to new cities for Waymo is of course not nearly as hard as making it work in the first city, San Francisco was a big step up in difficulty, but they seem very close to having made that step. If they had simply wanted to expand to more of Phoenix, they would have been able to do that in a very short time, but that's not worth doing right now until they are in actual production.
It is worth noting that we're seeing AutoX do unmanned operation in Shenzhen, and not just the suburbs. But their initial suburb (Pingshan) was more difficult than Chandler, AZ but probably not quite as difficult as SF. Waymo doesn't do downtown SF in their service yet but I presume they test in it.
In some sense Waymo has been in SF for many years at some level, but only at large scale recently.
Each new city will require some work, though less and less with each one. Only Tesla imagines they can just drive in a new city they have never tested before, or that a person should ever trust their life to a car that's never been verified in that city. Elon keeps saying you will be able to do that this year, for many years including 2022.
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