Autopilot 2.0 is dangerous

[Sir Guacamolaf]

It's funny sometimes to go back to the past - your 6-12 month prediction seemed reasonable - but it's only been 90 days and AP2 has improved so much since your post 17.17.4->17.17.26->the new naming convention extra silky. They're almost indistinguishable now. This bodes well for the future.

As for AP1 love - I think it has improved in the last 6 months personally - drives amazingly smooth - like a train on rails. See the article recently written.

My AP1 seems to have gotten better. A number of roads or intersections where I wouldn't have dared to use AP1, now the car negotiates them flawlessly again and again. I think it's fair to say that in major inside roads and freeways you can pretty much AP now. Residential streets, not so much.

I think Tesla's focus is AP2 now, so AP2 and AP1 will be equal sometime this year. As far as FSD, I think at least another 2 years. I mean, they'll release something, but it won't use the true promise of FSD until 2019.

 

[Mark Z]

What build are you on?

17.28.c528869

My passengers are upset enough with the occasional sudden turns toward the off ramp without letting the Model S drive completely off the freeway. The passengers wonder why Autopilot 2 is allowed to be sold. I tell them, "It's labeled beta software".

I have had the vehicle change lanes on it's own when paint lines are slightly off or the road surface is uneven. I let the vehicle complete the error if I am in the center lane, there is no traffic around and I am alone in the car. That's enough proof that the software isn't doing it's job.

 

[oktane]

Checking back in with you @oktane - was reading through this thread again. We are now I think - three builds - past your post back on May 2. 17.17.4 and now "silky smooth" 1 and 2. How has your car improved/not-improved/worsened?

I think my car has gotten better in the last 3 builds. It follows curves better. My last 50+ mile drive it seemed to work OK. However, I had a couple of dangerous moves with veering out of the lane or dangerously braking. I think the problem is I don't really understand when it's going to work well and when it will fail.

For sure it fails badly cresting hills. Going downhill it "sees" much farther and works better. Going uphill can be dangerous. If there is a curve and a semi truck in the curve (especially if the truck is white in color) the car will lose track of the lane. I wonder if this has to do with automatic exposure, where a large white object turns down the exposure and the camera loses the lane markings.

I'd say still not parity with AP1. Still too dangerous to be used by most drivers. The nags are also super annoying. I'm really not very much impressed with AP2 at this point. It does work in many situations, but not what I paid for or expected this far down the line.

 

[Draginol]

I have two Model X’s.

One with ap1 and one with ap2. The ap2 o e isn’t remotely close to ap1 yet even with the aug2 update.

Ap1 is a wonderful feature, great for heavy traffic, construction slowdowns, high way driving, stop and go, Ap2 is a gimmick right now. I wouldn’t trust it beyond a few seconds on the hw while I fiddle with a map setting.

 

[boonedocks]

When I revisited this thread today I changed my vote on the poll. I was reasonably happy with AP2 when I first took delivery of my 100D as of today there is no comparison to AP1 and I re-cast my vote to VERY UNHAPPY

 

[jelloslug]

I have two Model X’s.

One with ap1 and one with ap2. The ap2 o e isn’t remotely close to ap1 yet even with the aug2 update.

Ap1 is a wonderful feature, great for heavy traffic, construction slowdowns, high way driving, stop and go, Ap2 is a gimmick right now. I wouldn’t trust it beyond a few seconds on the hw while I fiddle with a map setting.

I have driven both. I really think you are being very over dramatic.

 

[Electroman]

When I revisited this thread today I changed my vote on the poll. I was reasonably happy with AP2 when I first took delivery of my 100D as of today there is no comparison to AP1 and I re-cast my vote to VERY UNHAPPY

Wow.. this is disappointing. I love AP1 and use it so much, now I am having 2nd thoughts on trading in my AP1 S for an AP2 X.

I will reserve my judgement when I pick up an X tomorrow for a 24 hour test drive..

 

[boonedocks]

Wow.. this is disappointing. I love AP1 and use it so much, now I am having 2nd thoughts on trading in my AP1 S for an AP2 X.

I will reserve my judgement when I pick up an X tomorrow for a 24 hour test drive..

I am reasonably sure that it will get much much better than where it is now. AP1 did have some growing pains but AP2 has been a disappointment. If anything just hold off a little longer and enjoy your AP1. Maybe something new is in the off with Model S & X by the time AP2 is ready for primetime.

 

[u00mem9]

Wow.. this is disappointing. I love AP1 and use it so much, now I am having 2nd thoughts on trading in my AP1 S for an AP2 X.

I will reserve my judgement when I pick up an X tomorrow for a 24 hour test drive..

Please report back your findings. I honestly can't believe this is still going on and hasn't really hurt sales. I guess that means AP is only a killer app to a small group of us. I never would have purchased my AP1 car without it.

 

[alcibiades]

It's still getting worse. It didn't use to do this.

 

[Draginol]

I have driven both. I really think you are being very over dramatic.

And I own both and drive both frequently. My opinion is not designed to invalidate your opinion. It is my opinion. The opinion of someone who owns two Model X's.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Wow @alcibiades... seems like your AP has well and truly reached AP1 parody.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Sorry. I didn't go back and check the dates against the releases. 17.17.4 was the first update that really showed progress for us. Now we're back in the "2 steps forward, 3 steps back" era. Zig zag means abrupt changes in direction of the vehicle without regard to surrounding cars. There's no "slightly detectable" to it. Overhead signs and tree limbs that have never been a problem now cause braking events, some minor and some dangerous. When passengers are screaming "turn it off," it's a pretty good hint that we're not making progress. Haven't heard that since about February or March. This behavior is on interstate highways around Charleston, SC. And, no, I don't have movie evidence, but I have lots of disgruntled passengers with first-hand knowledge.

I didn't have the zig zagging in that version, but was updated to 2017.28.4 cf44833 last week at a service appointment for my tires and AS is now unusable on freeways at freeway speeds. The car starts oscillating back and forth through the lane. It feels like it is hunting for the center, but overshooting by more and more every time.

 

[NerdUno]

I think what Elon meant was it's silky smooth as long as you leave AP2 turned off.

Look at the photos posted by @alcibiades and tell me again that they test this sh*t before releasing it.

 

[Electroman]

I agree just purely based on those pictures that is sh*t.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That lane hugging thing is really weird. It doesn't happen to everyone (not to me), but judging by reports here it does happen to sufficiently many people to really wonder what is going on there.

 

[alcibiades]

I've been sending all of the pictures I nab of my car behaving badly to Tesla -- since end of July. I hear ZERO back from them other than:

"Thank you for contacting Tesla Vehicle Support. On your behalf, I have submitted your feedback regarding the autopilot functionality after the latest firmware update, to the appropriate team and can assure you that the right people will get the information. We are always striving to improve our products and feedback such as yours is greatly valued. Don’t hesitate to email or call us if you have any further feedback, questions or concerns.


Thanks for being a Tesla Owner!

Best Regards,"

 

[imispgh]

Michael DeKort - Lockheed Engineer - Founder of Professionals for Responsible Mobility

It is impossible to reach autonomy using public shadow driving as the primary means of AI, engineering and test. Versus aerospace level simulation. That is for two reasons.

Thousands of accidents, injuries and casualties will occur when these companies move from benign and easy scenarios to complex, dangerous and accident scenarios. The first avoidable death of a child or family could shut the whole thing down for quite a while and invite far more regulation than self-policing would.

The other reason is the process requires one TRILLION miles be shadow driven at a cost of over $300B. That is impossible to do. (It's not the 6B Elon says. If you apply common sense, given he says 1/3 have already been driven, ^B isn't remotely close).

I provide far more details on how to do this right in the articles I provide links for below. I also provide links to the data references I site. All of you drivers should get beyond the echo chamber, do your homework and think about what you are participating in. PAYING to participate in.

Letter to Congress - Handling of minimum standards for Autonomous industry
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/letter-congress-handling-minimum-standards-industry-michael-dekort/

Who will get to #Autonomous Level 5 First and Why
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/who-get-autonomous-level-5-first-why-michael-dekort

 

[brkaus]

17.28.c528869

My passengers are upset enough with the occasional sudden turns toward the off ramp without letting the Model S drive completely off the freeway. The passengers wonder why Autopilot 2 is allowed to be sold. I tell them, "It's labeled beta software".

I have had the vehicle change lanes on it's own when paint lines are slightly off or the road surface is uneven. I let the vehicle complete the error if I am in the center lane, there is no traffic around and I am alone in the car. That's enough proof that the software isn't doing it's job.

The other part of the answer is that it is an assist system with a driver paying attention. Much like cruise control when it was first released. The internet was buzzing with quotes about how it would ram the car in from the of you if you weren’t paying attention. Ok, the letters to the editor of car publications.

 

[imispgh]

I just returned from a 2,000 mile trip from San Jose to Salt Lake City with AP 2. Went up via Reno on 80 and returned thru Las Vegas route. 1,800 miles of freeway with speeds between 65 and 80. Not once did I need to take control from autosteer. Not once. Many curves and many mountains. A couple hundred miles in rain and strong winds in the desert. About 300 miles in darkness. I felt very comfortable the entire trip. Autosteer and TACC both worked far better than I expected. My car is a S75D and is the best for this trip that I have taken about 50 times. Loving this car so far, 4,500 miles.

So you ran AP that whole time? No disengagements? Especially at night and/or bad weather?