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Autopilot and Speeding

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by thelastdeadmouse, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. thelastdeadmouse

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    Is there any information out there talking about how the Autopilot will handle speeding? There's a lot of places in the country where 5-15 mph above the speed limit is the norm, and while I'd imagine the cruise control will let you set it as any speed, will it drop back down to the speed limit every time you pass a sign? Elon said you can select if you want a more aggressive or passive autopilot, but I haven't seen anything specific to speeding.
     
  2. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Autopilot and speed limits

    I didn't see a dedicated thread but perhaps I just missed it.

    One of the questions/topics that was brought up in one of the mega threads about D was the speed limit behavior. Perhaps someone at the event could comment on the topic.

    This image is from the 12:21 mark of Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube
    Autopilot_SpeedLimit_FromDEvent.png

    My interpretation of the "65mph" indicators in that image is:
    1. left = cruise control
    2. middle = current speed
    3. right = speed limit sign most recently recognized by sensors + analysis

    Am I wrong to assume that the presence of #1 indicates that (a) it's not identical to #3 and (b) there is/will-be a setting to specify the driver's preferred cruise control adjustment to the posted speed limit?
     
  3. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Of course, it should be possible to set the cruise control below the speed limit.

    Perhaps the question really is "what speed does the car go with cruise set above the speed limit?"

    Not a simple problem. What if you drive into a lower speed limit area? You probably don't want to keep going at your cruise set speed.

    On the other hand, if the car matches the speed limit, then you can be a dangerous impediment to traffic flow in many areas.

    GSP
     
  4. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    #4 brianman, Oct 10, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
    @GSP - I think you misunderstood.

    My assumption was that the driver could set "+5mph", "+10%", or maybe even "+10%-2mph". Also, I was assuming that the driver is "surrendering" cruise control setting "manually" when Autopilot is engaged.

    Now that I think about it, I guess the way I would design it without new UI is to change the CC stalk behavior such that the -5, -1, +1, +5 of the CC stalk act as deltas on the Autopilot CC setting relative to speed limit signs.

    So, to compare...

    Without Autopilot
    1. xx human observes 55mph sign
    2. 60 human sets CC at 60mph
    3. 60 human observes 60mph sign
    4. 65 human increments CC by 5
    5. 65 human observes 65mph sign and increments CC by 5
    6. 75 human observes 70mph sign and increments CC by 5
    7. 80 human observes 75mph sign and increments CC by 5
    8. 75 human observes 70mph sign and decrements CC by 5
    9. 50 human observes 45mph sign and decrements CC by 25 (construction)
    10. 75 human observes 70mph sign and increments CC by 25

    With Autopilot
    1. xx human observes 55mph sign
    2. 60 human sets CC at 60mph, and engages Autopilot
    3. 60 Autopilot observes 60mph sign
    4. 65 human increments Autopilot by 5, Autopilot increments CC by 5
    5. 70 Autopilot observes 65mph sign and increments CC by 5
    6. 75 Autopilot observes 70mph sign and increments CC by 5
    7. 80 Autopilot observes 75mph sign and increments CC by 5
    8. 75 Autopilot observes 70mph sign and decrements CC by 5
    9. 50 Autopilot observes 45mph sign and decrements CC by 25 (construction)
    10. 75 Autopilot observes 70mph sign and increments CC by 25

    Observe that human intervention becomes unnecessary pretty quickly (after step 4).
     
  5. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I don't think anyone (outside Tesla) knows the answer at this point.

    However, if you remember the discussion on the speed warning feature last week, Tesla said you could set it to warn you at a delta off of the speed limit, and showed a configuration page where you set the delta. I'm thinking the same setting will control how fast the Autopilot drives when there's no traffic.

    If that's the case, you'd set the offset to what made you comfortable once in the configuration page, and the autopilot would just roll with that until you changed it.
    Walter
     
  6. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    There's nothing official out there.

    However, last week when they were talking about the speed warning feature, they showed a configuration page where you could set the warning to trigger at an offset from the speed limit the camera saw. I have no proof, but I'm suspecting that the Autopilot will use either the same offset or a similar one to decide how fast you want it to drive.
    Walter
     
  7. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Hm, I should look back at those pages. Thanks.
     
  8. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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  9. Blathering1

    Blathering1 Remember

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    That link is not valid as I write this...
     
  10. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    They merged. The link pointed to what is now post 2 in this thread.
     
  11. Eseell

    Eseell Member

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    The threads got merged.
     
  12. Vger

    Vger Active Member

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    I was at the event and got the test ride. It was shown that the car will both slow down AND speed up in response to road signs. It was all so quick that we did not get to as the driver questions about these intricate "policy" decisions. It was VERY clear though that the expect to refine the software early and often, and hopefully will take a lot of input from early owners.
     
  13. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    Brian -
    i had a brand new loaner on Wednesday with all the autopilot hardware on it. It was running the rare/elusive .14 flavor of 5.9 -- and had the speed limit and lane departure warnings enabled.

    the speed limit warnings worked just like that manual pic your posted explained. Dashed line on the speedo if it was using GPS data, it then turned solid at almost the exact moment I passed a speed limit sign. The line moved to a new spot if the limit changed. If I exceeded the limit, the speed limit sign would display in place of the battery/RM bar for about 10 seconds, and the speedo bar that is normally blue would become white above the posted speed limit. It was very nicely integrated into the (now outdated?) dash graphics -- informative but not intrusive.

    i suspect that autopilot will allow some sort of setting based on the current limit. Hopefully it keeps that "5 over" if the limit drops, although I could see tesla setting it to automatically go to the limit and the driver having to bump the speed back up to 5 over (that would be annoying, but understandable....)
     
  14. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    During the presentation Elon mentioned you will be able to set the autopilot as agressive as you want. I interpret that as meaning following distance, as is the case on our other car with ACC, but perhaps it also means relative offset to the posted speed limit for the self driving function.
     
  15. shelbri

    shelbri Member

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    Pure speculation on my part but as responsibility moves from the driver to the manufacturer with each step toward autonomous driving, I'd highly doubt Tesla will allow the driver to exceed posted speed limits with autopilot engaged. If an accident occurs, who is responsible? Owner says Tesla malfunctioned and caused the accident. Tesla says driver overrode speed limit contributing or causing. Lawyers have a field day.

    Perhaps during the autopilot phase, overrides are allowed as responsibility arguably is still with the driver. But once autonomous driving is a reality, my guess is that will change.

    Cool technology but I like driving my Model S.
     
  16. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I think it'd be clearly the driver's fault either way. Tesla's lawyer asks the driver: "Did you change the default setting to cause the car to go faster than the speed limit?"

    Driver's fault either way - as long as the car's logs/black box prove that the driver specifically changed the limiter, it's all on the driver (as it should be.)
    Walter
     
  17. seanahan

    seanahan Member

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    The good news in the long term is that as auto-pilot functionality becomes the norm, you will start to have things like auto-pilot lanes, where previously there were HOV lanes. The speed limits in these lanes will likely be higher, since safety is much less of a concern with those cars.

    Still, you have one 20 year old POS on the road, and it's a safety hazard for all the cars with auto-pilot, which otherwise could go much faster in a safer way.
     
  18. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Manufacturers could carry some of the responsibility in an accident if increased speeds can be programmed into the system.
     
  19. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    I don't think so. There is no place in the U.S. where there is a speed limit above 85mph. Yet, virtually all cars manufactured can exceed that limit, and do so without warning.

    You could say that there should be responsibility to the manufacturer already for not limiting the top speed at 85mph, and I'm sure lawyers tried this angle before and failed.
     
  20. shelbri

    shelbri Member

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    Interesting point but I would argue the difference is that with autonomous driving, the car, not the driver, is in control. It accepted the override to speed and continued onward. It is relying on the programming and features built by the manufacturer and therefore moves responsibility to the Manufacturer. While the current capabilities introduced this week are far from bleeding edge, Elon's desire to lead will likely put Tesla in the forefront and will therefore have to deal with this issue. Clearly this will play out in the courts once something unfortunate happens.
     

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