Autopilot and the meaning of the word 'never'

[dsm363]

Why 'never' has to be implemented so strictly is odd to say the least. The system realizes you are on a two lane road and warns driver they have 5 seconds to take over. Problem solved. Ok how about you are never allowed to drive on a two lane road with auto steer for more than 10 seconds. He knows the exact point I was trying to make and that's Tesla would have no reason to force immediate disabling of autosteer and create a potentially unsafe situation just because they ran into their own 'never' rule that brianman insists on. It's their rule so they can break it for a few seconds.

 

[bonnie]

I think I finally understand how you guys average 3,000 posts per year... :smile:

For the win!

 

[brianman]

This makes perfect sense. The problem with the theoretical situation with NEVER on 2 lane highways is that it's basically impossible to implement. So it's an assumption that's not well suited to base a conversation on. Here's why:

The AI system will take a discrete amount of time to determine "I am on a 2 lane highway now". So even if (once it makes that determination) immediately turns of auto steer (and oh btw - there is no IMMEDIATELY in software because instructions need to be executed and that takes TIME), that still means that auto steer has operated on that 2 lane highway. Depending on the quality of visual / radar data maybe just for a very short time - but not NEVER.

That's the problem with such absolute statements. The only real way to implement this is to do it the way I do it. My P85D at this point NEVER uses auto steer on 2 lane highways. That's because I'm still on fw v6.2.

In some computer science circles, the term "immediate" does have a definition > 0.

As an example, some would use the word "Immediate" for the "Fast" interaction class label here:
Planning for performance - Windows app development

 

[stopcrazypp]

In some computer science circles, the term "immediate" does have a definition > 0.

As an example, some would use the word "Immediate" for the "Fast" interaction class label here:
Planning for performance - Windows app development

Perhaps, but under your definition of "NEVER" that definition of "immediate" would not qualify.

Going back to the start of this dispute, did anyone ever ask jeffro01 what he meant when he said "never"? Perhaps under his definition, a couple seconds of transition time is allowed. That is not unreasonable given that is the definition other "nanny" systems use in regards to keeping your hands on the wheel. Then this whole argument is moot.

 

[Max*]

Then this whole argument is moot.

Not true, this thread is only on page 5.

Typical TMC fashion dictates that philosophical semantics based arguments must always (always = !never) reach at least Page 127.

Carry on.

 

[brianman]

Perhaps, but under your definition of "NEVER" that definition of "immediate" would not qualify.

Fair enough. Even further proves my point that the "never" option isn't viable unless the vehicle sensors+software can always reliably detect a transition to a 2 lane road (from more than 2 lanes) in >= 200ms.

 

[dirkhh]

So in conclusion, you are never allowed to use the word never in a description like this!

 

[brianman]

So in conclusion, you are never allowed to use the word never in a description like this!

"Almost."

 

[dirkhh]

"Almost."

could you define the word "Almost", please?

 

[Discoducky]

could you define the word "Almost", please?

Almost != Never

 

[brianman]

"Almost."

Point of clarification: This was an attempt at light-hearted humor for dsm. Hopefully he'll take it as such.

 

[dsm363]

Point of clarification: This was an attempt at light-hearted humor for dsm. Hopefully he'll take it as such.

It's all good. I never get upset