Autopilot appears to turn car against incoming car

[Papafox]

Tesla's one paragraph agreement that everyone must acknowledge clearly says do not use autosteering on roads lacking a divider from oncoming traffic. To see the one paragraph agreement that you acknowledged before Tesla will allow you to use autosteering. Turn autosteering off and then turn it back on again. The agreement says:

"Autosteer is for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings, or when there is a car directly ahead to follow. It should not be used on other kinds of roads or where the highways has very sharp turns or lane markings that are absent, faded, or ambiguous. Similar to the autopilot function in airplanes, you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle while enjoying the convenience of Autosteer.

Do you want to enable Autosteer while it is in Beta?"

 

[yobigd20]

AUTOPILOT IS FOR HIGHWAY ROADS ONLY.

i don't know why people keep erroneously using it on local roads.

 

[Matias]

Tesla's one paragraph agreement that everyone must acknowledge clearly says do not use autosteering on roads lacking a divider from oncoming traffic. To see the one paragraph agreement that you acknowledged before Tesla will allow you to use autosteering. Turn autosteering off and then turn it back on again. The agreement says:

"Autosteer is for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings, or when there is a car directly ahead to follow. It should not be used on other kinds of roads or where the highways has very sharp turns or lane markings that are absent, faded, or ambiguous. Similar to the autopilot function in airplanes, you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle while enjoying the convenience of Autosteer.

Do you want to enable Autosteer while it is in Beta?"

Has Tesla changed release notes? Please see copy of release notes on the first page of this thread. It doesn't contain word "divider".

- - - Updated - - -

AUTOPILOT IS FOR HIGHWAY ROADS ONLY.

i don't know why people keep erroneously using it on local roads.

Please see this

Autopilot appears to turn car against incoming car - Page 3

 

[vgrinshpun]

To me the AP lost the car in front cresting over a hill, and tried to pick up that car up again. It instead picked up the Lexus as a good target to follow and could not immediately ascertain the car was coming towards and not away from the driver. Even though the AP swerved towards it may have corrected itself even if the driver didn't do anything, we will never know. (Don't know if this was already stated as obvious)

It certainly did not lock onto oncoming car - the AP turned off, with the warning buzz, before MS got even with Lexus. See slowed down version of the video that was posted up thread.

 

[Papafox]

Has Tesla changed release notes? Please see copy of release notes on the first page of this thread. It doesn't contain word "divider".
...

There are two documents: the release notes and the one paragraph agreement you must acknowledge before you can use autosteer. Tesla has changed neither, to my knowledge. Turn off autosteering, turn it back on, and you will see the one paragraph agreement every driver must acknowledge before autosteer will function. The agreement is only one paragraph long and there is no excuse for not reading it before you begin using autosteer.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Has Tesla changed release notes? Please see copy of release notes on the first page of this thread. It doesn't contain word "divider".

I think that the quote is not from the release notes. It is a direct warning that appears on the screen before the Autosteering is engaged.

Looks like you jumped the gun with the whole thread.

1. Autosteering is intended for divided highway use only, it is clearly stated on the screen before it is allowed to be engaged.

2. The Autosteer was turned off before the MS was even with the Lexus.

 

[dirkhh]

Right. Well, with all due respect, your notion of "craptastic UI" a "pre-alpha release" or what you want or don't want in the car is neither a factual truism for the community in general or a widely held opinion. Your opinions, thus stated, make it impossible for someone that likes the direction to even comment affirmatively and not be labeled a "fanboy." Personally, I find your assertions wildly off-mark and none-too-vaguely insulting. Taking a step back and looking at the incredibly difficult task at hand of creating something that has never been, in a way that satisfies EVERYONE is both bold and audacious. I, for one, applaud Tesla for giving it a go.

Does it have challenges? Yes. Will it get better? Of course. Is it a step in the right direction? 100%.

Give it a bit of a rest man. Your dislike of the update has been widely noted.

So you get to decide who gets to post and what they get to post? I didn't realize.

And I haven't called anyone a fanboy. I go out of my way to state that it appears a majority likes the new design. There is some indication that some people prefer not to post their negative opinion because they are concerned that they might get attacked for voicing such opinion (funnily enough I received a few PMs from people saying more or less that). Of course that's ridiculous. No one would ever get attacked on TMC for voicing criticism. Oh... wait...

I encourage everyone to share their opinion. Just as I share mine. Those who like the new design have done so in great detail. Why any of my posts are "none-too-vaguely insulting" is completely beyond me. Can you give me a concrete example where you think I insulted someone? With the exception of the summer intern who design the UI? Yes, I've been insulting him a lot. Guilty as charged.

Anyway, with your kind permission I intend to continue to voice my opinion here. Actually, come to think of it, even without your kind permission.

 

[Matias]

There are two documents: the release notes and the one paragraph agreement you must acknowledge before you can use autosteer. Tesla has changed neither, to my knowledge. Turn off autosteering, turn it back on, and you will see the one paragraph agreement every driver must acknowledge before autosteer will function. The agreement is only one paragraph long and there is no excuse for not reading it before you begin using autosteer.

Ok.

As AP hasn't rolled out in Europe I didn't know that. I think that settles the problem. You can't use AP in roads without divider. But it would still be good to have "divider" added also to release notes.

 

[eloder]

No, the only audio alert the car issued was the "collision imminent" fast-beep, which started at the same instant the blue Autosteer icon blinked off and the red "collision imminent" warning and graphic were displayed, at 0:10.

So Autosteer did not turn the car into oncoming traffic: it just chose to give up control at an instant when external forces were acting to turn the car left. To me the worrying thing is not that it couldn't handle the situation, but that it didn't orchestrate the handoff to manual control in a more timely and orderly fashion: Autosteer was clearly struggling (note the steering input toward and then away from the center line at 0:02-0:03) and didn't completely shut down for another six or seven seconds. The only things I can tell for sure from the video are that 1) there was, early on, a visual indication that it was not confident of the lane markings (no gray or blue lane lines displayed) and 2) that there was no audible indication prior to Autosteer disengaging and the "collision imminent" warnings.

Moderator request: please update the thread title. Autopilot did not steer the car into oncoming traffic: Autopilot just punted at a bad time.

From what I can tell, you can disable the pre-immediate warning chimes in the settings.

I guarantee this irresponsible driver did this.

 

[Stoneymonster]

People are going to use it how they are going to use it. If Tesla truly only wanted us using this feature on the highway only, it would geofence the feature appropriately and only allow it to function when the car is actually on the freeway. But that's not the case, is it?

Why don't they limit the top speed to be geofenced at race tracks?

 

[LetsGoFast]

From what I can tell, you can disable the pre-immediate warning chimes in the settings.

I guarantee this irresponsible driver did this.

I'm not sure how you can be confident of that. I've absolutely had it go from perfectly happy to "abort abort" instantly.

 

[uberanalyst]

In the referenced video, the autopilot likely quit unexpectedly because the car couldn't "see" over the crest of the hill. TACC sometimes has this same problem, perhaps because the radar is located low below the front bumper.

I can confirm that our Tesla operates the same way. I've had the car "try to depart the lane" at least a dozen times this weekend as I carefully experimented with the autopilot on various types of roads. As Tesla notes, it works nicely on freeways (traffic moving or bumper-to-bumper). But forget about using it on narrow roads, very curvy roads, roads with right or left turn lanes, roads with rolling hills, or for travel across intersections that aren't perfectly rectangular.

All it takes for the gray steering wheel icon to become visible in the dash (i.e., auto steer availability indicator) is a single stripe or curb on either the right or left side of the road. The car will then try to maintain a fixed offset to the right (for a left stripe/curb) or to the left (for a right stripe/curb), or center (with stripes on both sides). Only one stripe is necessary to guide the car: I was able to get the car to follow single centerline striped ramp markings out at the local airport while driving to/from our hangar.

Occasionally shadows, other vehicles, or roadside obstacles will cause the car to veer unexpectedly to one side or the other, requiring you to steer the car back towards the center. This sometimes happens without warning, before the car "gives up" and tells you to grab the wheel. Please be careful out there.

 

[AWDtsla]

Why don't they limit the top speed to be geofenced at race tracks?

Because no one obeys speed limits ever. Obeying the speed limit is suspicious and you will get pulled over. How exactly do you put that in computer code?

 

[brec]

Is auto steer really useful? Why?

If I have to keep my hands on the steering wheel. If I have to pay attention at all times and can't take my eyes off the road, I'm pretty much driving. Moving my arms up and down a little isn't much more effort.

Thats my issue with all these assisted driving technologies. They all lull you into a sense that you can pay less attention to the road, but you really can't.

I don't think it's really useful. I ordered my 85D, which was delivered Sept. 11, without it.

A month and a week later, after three days of reading all the posts about it, I today sent an email to my nearest Service Center; tomorrow they're going to call me with appointment availability for installing it.

I still don't think it's really useful. But it's a technology I want to be a part of. And there probably will be some situations in which it's useful.

 

[Eclectic]

I got to try the autopilot features on a trip from outside of SF to Napa county and back (mostly on freeways, some two lane roads once I hit Suisun). At best, autopilot features are amusing. At worst, they're downright dangerous. Maybe I'm unusual in that when I drive, I'm paying attention (rather than texting or taking videos or yakking on the phone), so I don't need technology to keep me in my lane or to change lanes. So I guess that for those people who spent $130K to buy a car with very adequate acceleration and handling, and who like to be distracted when they should be driving, it is a handy feature.

But I found the AP wandering inside my lane and getting WAY too close to other cars as well as retaining walls on multi-lane freeways. The only thing I can see this feature useful for is if you're checking emails when you're driving, to keep you from crossing lanes inadvertently. If it prevents accidents, that's great (but I'd rather see people who can't be bothered to pay attention when driving have their licenses revoked, as a car is an extremely dangerous object and far too many people already die each year because of inattentive/reckless drivers).

The problem is that the system is far from reliable and it really doesn't help anyone from driving fatigue, as you have to be more vigilant when the system is controlling the car than you'd be if you were in charge and paying attention. On the relatively short trip I took today I had to take control a half dozen or more times. And at two points, the system just said it was unavailable (in each case, after nearly causing an accident).

The bigger problem is that it can be exceedingly dangerous in anything other than optimal conditions. On 680 as you're driving parallel to Grizzly Island, I had the car drive straight through a turn and had I not yanked the wheel I would have been sent into a ditch at 60 mph. I was following instructions and warnings and had my hands on the wheel at all times, so I was able to save us at the last second, but it's VERY hard to predict when AP is going to fail you. I had about a second of reaction time to steer out of trouble. If you have to be so vigilant and hands on, any benefit from the system is nil.

This is a toy, and a very dangerous one at that. It probably works great on an impeccably laid out and maintained test track, but in the real world of sub-optimal infrastructure and poor maintenance, it simply doesn't do anything that is helpful or responsible.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Because no one obeys speed limits ever. Obeying the speed limit is suspicious and you will get pulled over. How exactly do you put that in computer code?

There's a big difference between 10 over and 155 mph.

 

[AWDtsla]

There's a big difference between 10 over and 155 mph.

Sorry is 10 over in some piece of legislation that makes it meaningful? Of course not.


...and around here it's 15-20 over in traffic, sometimes it moves faster than that after rush hour(s).

 

[bradhs]

I've used Auto Pilot now for over 200 miles on freeways and so far I have had a completely different experience than you. It has done exceptionally well for me. I drove one or two miles at most of the 200 miles on the freeway. Those miles that I drove were areas where I felt that I wanted to be in full control, for example, multi-lane change to get out of a pocket of slow moving cars, freeway interchange that had a very sharp turn.

Just don't use the feature if you cant get it to work properly. I recommend you turn it off. Don't get yourself hurt if it doesn't work for you just like most people don't use cruise control because they cant handle the car automatically accelerating to keep speed.

I got to try the autopilot features on a trip from outside of SF to Napa county and back (mostly on freeways, some two lane roads once I hit Suisun). At best, autopilot features are amusing. At worst, they're downright dangerous. Maybe I'm unusual in that when I drive, I'm paying attention (rather than texting or taking videos or yakking on the phone), so I don't need technology to keep me in my lane or to change lanes. So I guess that for those people who spent $130K to buy a car with very adequate acceleration and handling, and who like to be distracted when they should be driving, it is a handy feature.
.......

 

[mobe]

I slowed it down to 25% right before auto-steer disengages if anyone was interested. What's notable when you watch it slower is that it seems clear the cars would not have collided if he didn't grab the wheel. The other car was even when his hand touched the wheel and well clear by the time the driver turned the steering wheel. Not sure that means much other than the Model S in this particular case did not steer "into" the other vehicle in a manner that would have actually caused a collision.

25percent speed - this is not my video - YouTube

It is obvious that the car did not "streer itself" into the oncoming lane, what it DID do was disengage the autopilot while external forces were trying to turn the wheel into the turn. The instant that it released the torque that it had on the wheel, the wheel began to turn. While autopilot was engaged it was actively resisting the left turning external force. I think that any reasonable person would have noticed much earlier that the car was not tracking properly and disengaged autopilot. If my car behaved the way that car did in the turn prior to the autopilot disengaging, I would have taken over immediately.

 

[Auzie]

...............
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Why any of my posts are "none-too-vaguely insulting" is completely beyond me. Can you give me a concrete example where you think I insulted someone? With the exception of the summer intern who design the UI? Yes, I've been insulting him a lot. Guilty as charged.

Anyway, with your kind permission I intend to continue to voice my opinion here. Actually, come to think of it, even without your kind permission.

In your own words, you 'insulted a lot' a Tesla summer intern.


As someone who has done my fair share of insulting others, I usually stay quiet when adult peers have a go at each other, it can often be fun to watch them hurling insults at each other.


I'd like to think that there is a difference in insulting our peers and insulting someone who is not our peer in some significant way.


Whenever I feel the urge to hurl the insult someone else's way, I run it through my personal 'to insult or not to insult' checklist.


Different race - tabu
Poor people - tabu
Sick people - tabu
Disabled people - evaluate the severity of disability and proceed accordingly
Different gender - tempting one, but better to refrain
Children - no (tempting sometimes, but better not to give in to such low urges)
People that are in any way not my equal - much wiser to refrain


My evaluation of interns puts them in the similar category as children. Most likely they are still supported by their parents, financialy and otherwise. There is considerable likelihood that the target intern is of the different race and gender. Hence my 'to insult or not to insult' checklist suggests that it is not ok to insult interns.

This specific Tesla intern insult is done publicly on this forum. As a witness to it, if I just let it go that makes me unwilling party to such an insult. Hence, I feel compelled to say that I do not condone publicly insulting Tesla interns.


But hey, this is a free posting forum and you or anyone else do not need anyone's permission to do as you please.