cgiGuy
Active Member
Funny how you chastise the guy with his hands off the steering wheel and applaud the guy who climbed in the back seat.
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Autopilot being used in a dangerous fashion?
- Thread starter Freddy
- Start date
Funny how you chastise the guy with his hands off the steering wheel and applaud the guy who climbed in the back seat.
Ha, at first glance it seems that way but they are two very different things.
One was a controlled experiment done on a private road at low speeds. The video was clear about what was occurring, and that this was something you would NEVER DO on a public road. He knew it was going to be done, and decided to do so himself, but in as safe a manner as possible.
The other video starts off says "Tesla says to keep both hands at the wheel, but you don't really need to"
So before it even begins we're already off to a bad start.
I say this as someone who thinks it's really situationally dependent. I don't expect any universally agreed upon standard of when someone should keep their hands on the wheel and when it's okay not to. But, i will say driving at speed (>25mph or so) on an undivided road relying on system you've had for less than a day is dangerous.
I don't particularly care about people putting themselves or their own property in danger, but when they put the public at large in danger through their own action then I'm a bit concerned.
My desire is to have nice things. For engineers to win, and for the lawyers to lose (or simply not to be in the game).
To be fair I should add that I did like how in this video the guy wasn't distracted by filming it with a cell phone. So it wasn't all bad.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Gas pedal being used in a dangerous fashion?
I think it's only a matter of time before they remove the gas pedal...people are abusing it regardless of the traffic laws.
I think it's only a matter of time before they remove the gas pedal...people are abusing it regardless of the traffic laws.
I'll readily admit that I've steered with my knee on more than one occasion while unwrapping a hamburger or something similar. I prefer to hold the box under the burger when taking a bite so drips don't end up in my lap. That also requires a knee on the wheel ... then the box hand goes back to the wheel. This is generally on the highway with light traffic. You can hold the scorn.
Would you rather have me do that with or without AP? And neither is not a valid answer.
Would you rather have me do that with or without AP? And neither is not a valid answer.
Way too dangerous.
I'd much rather have men shaving while driving, reading newspapers (not digital, actual fold out newspapers), women putting on makeup, moms looking back and yelling at their kids while their car drifts into my lane, texting, talking on the phone (yeah, whatever, hands free, shmans free, there was a recent study that it's just as distracting), having the drivers foot hanging out the window, etc. etc. etc. without autopilot.
That's much safer.
I'd much rather have men shaving while driving, reading newspapers (not digital, actual fold out newspapers), women putting on makeup, moms looking back and yelling at their kids while their car drifts into my lane, texting, talking on the phone (yeah, whatever, hands free, shmans free, there was a recent study that it's just as distracting), having the drivers foot hanging out the window, etc. etc. etc. without autopilot.
That's much safer.
Krugerrand
Meow
I'd rather option #3 - that you do what you're suppose to do in your car, which is drive. And that is a valid answer because there isn't just two options here. You don't have to eat while you're driving, ever. The minute it takes to eat the burger, you could have just done so in the parking lot while parked. You could also have chosen French fries that won't cause you to worry about dripping on yourself. Or placed a bib over yourself. Or worn you're eating clothes. Better yet, you could have chosen a more nutritious granola/energy bar and vacuumed up the crumbs at your destination with your portable electric crumb sucker.
AP isn't an invitation for you to eat a messy, drippy hamburger, that carries more concern for your clothes than those around you in traffic. The fact AP makes your ability to do something you shouldn't be doing in your car, easier, isn't relevant. Nor does it address the real problem at hand - people not paying attention when they drive and thinking that's a-ok.
mobe
Member
Thats nice and all and I'm sure that we can all agree that is best, but if you think that what you are describing has ever been, is, or ever will be reality you are mistaken.
So all of the previously described activities and more are, were and always will happen in moving vehicles.
Better with or without autopilot is the question.
Your basing this on the premise that it's clearly unsafe to steer a car with one's knee in circumstances where quick steering response isn't necessary. Is it less safe than one hand on the wheel? Of course. Is two hands safer than one hand? Of course. That doesn't make one hand unsafe.
I'm not looking for an argument or discussion regarding my appalling driving habits on those occasions when I grab a bite to bring in the car. I'm sure some would be upset about the speed at which I drive, also. My point is that this stuff happens all the time ... and much worse. Having autopilot available increases the safety margin.
Krugerrand
Meow
I have no illusions about mankind and reality. It doesn't, however, mean I have to like the behaviors, accept them or encourage them.
My answer remains: Neither is better. Better is when people are responsible and care that their actions may affect others in a negative way - like injury or death in this case. I'd ask the driver of the van that ran up and under a tractor trailer last week if what they were doing was really that important, but they're - you know - dead.
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And you not driving with your knee and food in your hands increases the safety margin even more and by a lot. It's like you're trying to *just* pass the test. But more importantly it's not just about you, it's about all the other people on the road with you, and you thinking nothing of putting them in danger. AP is currently BETA, but even it was a final version, it's not autonomous, two-fisted hamburger driving.
People should do the reversal test when discussing the dangers of AutoPilot (Reversal test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Imagine a world where ALL cars were controlled automatically and accidents were a rare occurrence...and then some ambitious car maker introduced a car where the steering and acceleration was controlled by a faulty human that could not pay attention, drink and drive, text and drive, have a heart attack, etc. We'd never allow it!
Imagine a world where ALL cars were controlled automatically and accidents were a rare occurrence...and then some ambitious car maker introduced a car where the steering and acceleration was controlled by a faulty human that could not pay attention, drink and drive, text and drive, have a heart attack, etc. We'd never allow it!
Krugerrand
Meow
EXCEPT AP is NOT autonomous driving. For now, AP is 'driver still responsible'. When we get to 'ALL cars *are* controlled automatically and accidents *are* a rare occurrence', I of course won't care if someone is eating a burger, nachos or chicken wings while in the 'driver's seat'.
Would you rather someone be eating a burger, nachos or chicken wings while in the drivers seat with or without Autopilot? That's the real question.
Drivers do stupid things. Shaving, reading a paper newspaper, reading a kindle, sticking their feet out the window (I don't get this one), etc. would you rather they continue to do their stupid **** with or without AP?
ETA: The same could be said about airbags. That's it, we have airbags, everyone is going to drive like a maniac, and since people now are less likely die it'll cause more accidents. That's also not a valid argument. Same could be said of ABS, and practically any car advancement in the past 100 years.
All of this talk is just about natural selection, its been in place for millions of years so the bloodlines of fools do not continue on and pollute the gene pool of humanity. Some guy put a mortar on his head on the 4th of July and lit it. Driving while surfing the web, eating a burger, smoking a cigarette and talking on the phone will get you a Darwin award. That is what that award program is for...........
I have no illusions about mankind and reality. It doesn't, however, mean I have to like the behaviors, accept them or encourage them.
My answer remains: Neither is better. Better is when people are responsible and care that their actions may affect others in a negative way - like injury or death in this case. I'd ask the driver of the van that ran up and under a tractor trailer last week if what they were doing was really that important, but they're - you know - dead.
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And you not driving with your knee and food in your hands increases the safety margin even more and by a lot. It's like you're trying to *just* pass the test. But more importantly it's not just about you, it's about all the other people on the road with you, and you thinking nothing of putting them in danger. AP is currently BETA, but even it was a final version, it's not autonomous, two-fisted hamburger driving.
As the afore mentioned burger eater, I've already reproduced so my progeny may continue my burger eating habits :tongue:
Having had a lot of AP experience in the preceding days, I feel and would be safer with other AP drivers in those conditions than without. There is no doubt about that. There is no doubt in my mind about that.
Obviously, you don't want more people engaging in such activities because of said technology's expansion.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
That would be fine but these people will probably survive because they are in such a safe car ... but what about the people they hit or drive off the road. They may be the 'good' ones that should continue. I'm fine with the AP no hands driver just hurting themselves.
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