Autopilot Brake checking

[1.21GW]

In general, I feel like autopilot makes me look like a terrible driver to other motorists. My biggest issue is the obscene brake checking. If there is a car in front of me that is slowing and turning, and it can be a LONG way ahead of me, my car does a quick brake check. To other drivers, this would appear like I am either drunk or road raging at them...

The other day there was a SUV behind me, not tailgating but not very far back, and my car slammed on the brakes for about 0.5 second, just enough so the rear end of my car went up. From the other drivers perspective, the turning car in front of me was 500ft+ ahead, so anyone’s logical conclusion was that I was brake checking.

Sure enough, when the road opened up and that driver passed me, they had indicated that they were not pleased. There is no way I could explain... (plus, I would have been mad at me too..)

Autopilot may keep me safe from hitting anything but I’m not sure they factored in road rage into the algorithms.

 

[Knightshade]

In general, I feel like autopilot makes me look like a terrible driver to other motorists. My biggest issue is the obscene brake checking. If there is a car in front of me that is slowing and turning, and it can be a LONG way ahead of me, my car does a quick brake check. To other drivers, this would appear like I am either drunk or road raging at them...

Manual still says it's only for use on divided highways with controlled access- so nobody should ever BE turning in front of you.

Another case of user error

 

[JulienW]

You are missing the point. You use AP as instructed (divided highways as Knightshade posted out) and wait or you use AP in situations that it is not quite "ready for prime time" to help train the Neural Net.

 

[1.21GW]

The diagnosis of user error is not a great excuse. Tesla could very easily disable autopilot everywhere except divided highways. A small legal disclaimer in a manual is not an appropriate response.

We all know this.

Is similar to buying a beach umbrella that touts amazing UV protection and can stand up to strong winds. But on page 132 of the users manual it says “not for use near sand”

Overall, it just makes me use AP less. My use of autopilot has decreased steadily since owning the car. At the moment, I do regret purchasing FSD. I really hope this autopilot re-write changes my mind.

 

[Knightshade]

The diagnosis of user error is not a great excuse.

Sure it is.

The manual specifically says "Here is where this system is intended for use and works optimally"

Using it elsewhere, if it works suboptimally, is 100% on the user who chose to do that.

I mean- the car could also disable being able to drive faster than the speed limit too- but it leaves that up to the driver as well- doesn't make it the CARS fault if you get a speeding ticket though does it?

 

[Battpower]

Tesla could very easily disable autopilot everywhere except divided highways.

Absolutely.

Can't have it all ways. Train the car to do what it can't yet do, but also don't use it unless the car can already do it.

In any case, on divided highways, using AP (HW3) after acknowledging lane change to overtake a truck, the car will change lane, pull forwards then brake quite hard far too often for comfort.

 

[john5520]

Absolutely.

Can't have it all ways. Train the car to do what it can't yet do, but also don't use it unless the car can already do it.

In any case, on divided highways, using AP (HW3) after acknowledging lane change to overtake a truck, the car will change lane, pull forwards then brake quite hard.

Agreed. They're adding features that people mostly encounter on busier streets and are talking about turning on city streets coming next, so what do they expect people will want to do?
I've used it on 2-way streets / roads with right foot close to the accelerator for just those situations above. And I wish I could say I'm more confident about the freeway and faster divided roadways, but I'm not. Still ready to punch the accelerator. Until they fix the speed limit issue, phantom braking can and will happen on any road.

The manual wording is to cover their butts, and probably won't change even when turning on city streets is added.

 

[jroydog]

Phantom braking is highly variable as well. When I first got my car, I figured out pretty quickly to pay attention when going under an overpass because the shadows seemed to trigger it. Now they've fixed that, a previous version would trigger whenever a car was merging from the right from an on ramp. The current version I'm on just seems to do it without any rhyme or reason whatsoever. But the point is, this has been happening with every release, a certain % of owners says it gets better and a certain % say it's worse. Now there are more variables to consider than ever before (2 HW versions, more vehicle models, and soon a entire FSD code rewrite). So who knows, it's a beta product so just always be ready to mash the accelerator or wait for lots of people to say it's stopped happening.

 

[SlimJim]

I tested AP for 160 miles yesterday. not one phantom braking happened.
the test of change was switching forward collision warning to medium. I was going to change it to late if i experience phantom braking. But it never happened.

Doesnt it make sense? OP should try it. 500ft sounds like what early warning would react to.

 

[TomT]

I've been using medium since day one... Not a day goes by without at least one phantom braking incident.

I tested AP for 160 miles yesterday. not one phantom braking happened.
the test of change was switching forward collision warning to medium.

 

[SlimJim]

I've been using medium since day one... Not a day goes by without at least one phantom braking incident.

Try late setting.
And report back if a day goes by without pb

 

[Battpower]

I've been using medium since day one... Not a day goes by without at least one phantom braking incident.

+1

MS R LR FSD.

Car even screams about taking corrective action with no AP or TACC engaged.

Not found much if any difference by changing collision warning setting.

 

[ThomasD]

Divided highway vs limited access highway are 2 different things. Highway 19 where I live is a divided highway but not limited access. Maybe Tesla should only allow the system to be used on interstates

 

[Knightshade]

Divided highway vs limited access highway are 2 different things. Highway 19 where I live is a divided highway but not limited access. Maybe Tesla should only allow the system to be used on interstates

The manual states roads that have both are where it's intended for use.

Again, the car also doesn't lock you out of speeding if you wish to ignore the rules, but likewise doesn't absolve you of the consequences of ignoring them.


FWIW though SlimJims comment on forward collision warning impacting this is not the first time I've seen it mentioned.

I use late and can probably count on 1 hand the # of actual "phantom" (ie no very obvious cause like someone turning in front of me when using it on a road it's not meant for) braking experiences in almost 2 years of ownership.

But the vast, vast, vast majority of my driving is on divided highways with controlled access too.

 

[john5520]

I tested AP for 160 miles yesterday. not one phantom braking happened.
the test of change was switching forward collision warning to medium. I was going to change it to late if i experience phantom braking. But it never happened.

Doesnt it make sense? OP should try it. 500ft sounds like what early warning would react to.

I have mine on medium as well. The root cause on the interstate for most (based on posts in the forum), is the random speed limit changes where it suddenly goes from 55 to 45 or 35 because of an overpass or some other roadway close by. When they address that issue, most of the phantom braking problems will go away.

 

[1.21GW]

I am not sure the emergency braking system is tied to the function of autopilot. Plus, I only have my emergency braking set to generate an audible warning, not to take action.

Anyways, I’m just going to limit my use of AP and hope it gets better with the re-write. Thanks for the comments

 

[Knightshade]

I am not sure the emergency braking system is tied to the function of autopilot.

I'm not "sure" either but I've seen 2 different members say that setting it later reduced unwanted braking so it's a pretty solid theory there's a relation.

Since it's never been a real problem for me I've had no real cause to test it further- but if it's a problem for YOU that might be worth you doing some testing by setting it later than you have it now.

Plus, I only have my emergency braking set to generate an audible warning, not to take action.

I don't think that would matter if the early/normal/late setting impacts braking on AP.

 

[MacGreiner]

Yep. I often get fellow motorists signaling that they agree that my Tesla is No. 1 each time my AP randomly brakes on the freeway.

 

[afadeev]

Sure it is.
The manual specifically says "Here is where this system is intended for use and works optimally"

... Yeah, and then the manual proceeds to rule-out 99% of real-world driving scenarios: no traffic, no vehicles partially entering lanes; no roads with "changeable" traffic conditions, no winding roads, no roads with curves, no roads with "unforeseen" circumstances.

Disclaimers are pretty hilarious.
So are some Tesla fan-boys insistence on adhering to them!

In general, I feel like autopilot makes me look like a terrible driver to other motorists. My biggest issue is the obscene brake checking.

Yeah, phantom braking is real.
Occasionally correlated with passing under the bridges with funky shadows, and over-reactions to mis-programmed speed limit changes. Other times, the car just does it.

It's one of many reasons why I prefer NOT to drive behind other Tesla's.
Too many of them driving exactly @, or 5-miles over the speed limit, usually in the left-most lane, are some of the others.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

When you use autopilot/tacc the question isn't whether it will embarrass you, but how long you can go without being embarrassed.

I've been pretty happy with the Traffic Light Recognition, and Response as it hasn't embarrassed me too much. Sure it stops a bit short of where I would stop, and sure sometimes its starts braking a little after I do. But, overall it's pretty nifty and fairly minimal embarrassment.

TACC has been getting a bit better at allowing me to go longer without the dreaded phantom braking. But, it's been awhile since I've tested it on the freeway near semi's. It's mostly semis that trip it up.

Today I didn't last more than a few minutes before FSD tried embarrassing me. I manually requested a lane change, and after it started it the system aborted. During the abort I took after, and manually finished the lane change. I have no idea why it halted as there wasn't anyone anywhere close to me in the left lane that I was going into. Normally auto-lane change is pretty solid when doing user initiate changes.