AutoPilot Buddy now officially banned in USA!

[SSonnentag]

@IhateOPEC - Is that R2D2 wearing a burka? LOL!

 

[NewTMSMan]

People seem to conflate nags and a nanny system, with driving safely. I have no argument with driving safely no matter what you are driving. What I do not need is a "nag system" watching over my shoulder to make sure "it thinks" I am driving safely (TBH I have that already and it rides in the passenger seat periodically ).

 

[ka9q]

I can't really complain -- in principle -- about the reminders to keep my hands on the wheel. We all know we should do it without being told.

My complaint is that the alerts often appear even when I already have my hand(s) on the wheel. It works by sensing torque, so unless you apply some it won't know that you're already doing what it wants.

I do wish this could be relaxed a little. I'm comfortable enough with autosteering that I usually anticipate what it will do and know how it will behave and so I don't feel the need to constantly "fight" it. When I do (e.g., in a single, curving carpool lane between two Jersey barriers and no shoulder) I'll take over manually.

I wonder if the NTSB knows this. Recent accident narratives released by Tesla usually mention a series of "hold wheel" warnings in the minutes before the accident, implying that the driver wasn't paying attention when this might not have actually been the case.

 

[TaoJones]

I can't really complain -- in principle -- about the reminders to keep my hands on the wheel. We all know we should do it without being told.

My complaint is that the alerts often appear even when I already have my hand(s) on the wheel. It works by sensing torque, so unless you apply some it won't know that you're already doing what it wants.

I do wish this could be relaxed a little. I'm comfortable enough with autosteering that I usually anticipate what it will do and know how it will behave and so I don't feel the need to constantly "fight" it. When I do (e.g., in a single, curving carpool lane between two Jersey barriers and no shoulder) I'll take over manually.

I wonder if the NTSB knows this. Recent accident narratives released by Tesla usually mention a series of "hold wheel" warnings in the minutes before the accident, implying that the driver wasn't paying attention when this might not have actually been the case.

Agreed that false reporting would be Bad.

What we need is a smarter steering wheel or an even higher-level rethink. Nobody would willingly pay money for what is currently so clearly broken. Between the constant having to look down at the IC else having to wiggle the wheel constantly like a peripatetic person after an all-night bender, suffice it to say there’s room for improvement here.

An opportunity, if you will.

Out of principle, I refuse to repurpose otherwise perfectly good citrus or any other defeating mechanism. Besides, go figure, I’d prefer to use fishing weights to, um, actually fish. Now, when put into AS jail, I find myself just not caring or bothering to pull over when possible to reset it.

My hand is and has almost always been on the wheel 100% of the time. That used to be sufficient and should be sufficient today. Detect it and be done with it ffs.

Yes, I suggest a steering wheel redesign and mandatory retrofit instead of sticking with the failed torque sensor approach.

 

[IhateOPEC]

@IhateOPEC - Is that R2D2 wearing a burka? LOL!

A Cylon from the old school Battlestar Galactica.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I've said it before. If there are this many problems, complaints, and knee-jerk policy/firmware changes just from a couple of E(?)AP accidents... I seriously can't see FSD getting off the ground in the foreseeable future.

Just one fatal FSD accident, and we'll be back to steering wheel (or other) nags. Mark my words.

 

[IhateOPEC]

I've said it before. If there are this many problems, complaints, and knee-jerk policy/firmware changes just from a couple of E(?)AP accidents... I seriously can't see FSD getting off the ground in the foreseeable future.

Just one fatal FSD accident, and we'll be back to steering wheel (or other) nags. Mark my words.

Vision based FSD is 20 years or more away. It will not happen without a hardware retrofit on current model 3s.

 

[d21mike]

Vision based FSD is 20 years or more away. It will not happen without a hardware retrofit on current model 3s.

And yet we will start to see the first FSD Features this year

 

[EVNow]

Irresponsible sure, but I disagree with your examples.

Unfortunately a lot of people do not recognize that cars are weapons - very dangerous, because they are so common. That is why people casually drink and drive or text while driving. EAP is more dangerous than either of these when not paying attention.

I don't think anyone thinks of driving when drunk as a personal liberty issue. No one feels there should be products on the market that can defeat breath analyzer.

 

[HankLloydRight]

And yet we will start to see the first FSD Features this year

And as of yet a set of undefined "FSD" features.

Could be anything. Stop sign recognition?

 

[NewTMSMan]

I don't think anyone thinks of driving when drunk as a personal liberty issue. No one feels there should be products on the market that can defeat breath analyzer.

Interesting and terrible analogy.

The correct analogy would be to fit every car with a breathalyzer interlock to ensure you are not driving while intoxicated and require you to constantly breath in to it, and if you don't breath as strongly or often as it needs you get a nag.

Then you can read posts from other morons telling you how to breath properly.

You can then hear from people who don't know why you would complain about having it either unless you are in favor or drunk driving.

There you go that's the correct analogy, how do you like it now?

 

[NerdUno]

Our discussion simply reinforces the problem with an AP design which is all--or-nothing. Tesla AP mandates that either it's driving the car or you are, never both. Then they try to use the steering wheel for both purposes, to detect whether the driver is applying just a little torque on the wheel signifying that the driver presumably is alert or applying too much torque signifying that the driver wants to take over steering of the car. It's really a pretty horrible design compared to what you'll find in a Nissan Leaf or Rogue that lets BOTH the driver and their AP software steer the car at the same time. There's never any yanking of control away from the car and, in Elon's words, it's smooth as silk.

 

[mongo]

Tesla AP mandates that either it's driving the car or you are, never both.

The driver is always driving, AP (when on) is always suggesting.

It's really a pretty horrible design compared to what you'll find in a Nissan Leaf or Rogue that lets BOTH the driver and their AP software steer the car at the same time.

Impossible for both to be in control unless both provide identical inputs. Car wants to go left, driver wants to go right, one wins and one isn't driving.

If you are saying it would be better to have AP not deactivate on driver input, I can see pros and cons there.

 

[NewTMSMan]

The driver is always driving, AP (when on) is always suggesting.



Impossible for both to be in control unless both provide identical inputs. Car wants to go left, driver wants to go right, one wins and one isn't driving.

If you are saying it would be better to have AP not deactivate on driver input, I can see pros and cons there.

This is exactly right, but I would add that most of the discussion is not around whether the driver is in control with EAP, I think we all agree that until FSD is made available the driver is always in control and the EAP simply augments the driving capability of the car, much like cruise control in a standard vehicle.

Most of the debate is around whether the car needs to enforce driver engagement and then how it enforces this through nags.

My contention continues to be I do not need nags, nor any checks that I am driving the car properly. Cruise control in a standard car does not have nags to ensure driver engagement even though some people have fallen asleep with the cruise control set and have caused accidents (here is one new article from May 2018, but there are many instances I can cite - Mother killed, son and husband injured after driver falls asleep at the wheel on I-80 ). I am sure if all of a sudden you had to provide pressure on the throttle to make sure the car knew you were engaged in driving for cruise control many people would share my feelings about EAP nags.

 

[mongo]

This is exactly right, but I would add that most of the discussion is not around whether the driver is in control with EAP, I think we all agree that until FSD is made available the driver is always in control and the EAP simply augments the driving capability of the car, much like cruise control in a standard vehicle.

Most of the debate is around whether the car needs to enforce driver engagement and then how it enforces this through nags.

My contention continues to be I do not need nags, nor any checks that I am driving the car properly. Cruise control in a standard car does not have nags to ensure driver engagement even though some people have fallen asleep with the cruise control set and have caused accidents (here is one new article from May 2018, but there are many instances I can cite - Mother killed, son and husband injured after driver falls asleep at the wheel on I-80 ). I am sure if all of a sudden you had to provide pressure on the throttle to make sure the car knew you were engaged in driving for cruise control many people would share my feelings about EAP nags.

I grok
Personally, non-AP cars need nags more than AP cars.

 

[NewTMSMan]

I grok
Personally, non-AP cars need nags more than AP cars.

My wife is available to ride along with anyone who feels they would like to have more driving nags

 

[The Duke]

I keep one hand on the wheel. But seems The Cadillac Super Cruise and Consumer Reports would disagree. CR says SC requires you keep hands off the wheel and that is best.

That article states that Super Cruise gives the best driver confidence, nothing about safety.

I searched for Super Cruise nag defeat devices two months ago and found a few tablet mounts for steering wheel and dash so your eyes were looking the correct direction. But now I find nothing so perhaps these devices are being systematically targeted.

 

[HankLloydRight]

In case you haven't noticed, looks like they've moved on from "Autopilot Buddy®" to the "#1776 Tesla® compatible cellphone holder" for $200 which they clearly state (taking a page from Elon Musk's playbook):

NOTE: The #1776™ cell phone holder is "not an Autopilot Buddy®"

See: https://www.autopilotbuddy.com/shop

And also, who would buy a $200 "cell phone holder" that you're not supposed to use when the car is in motion?

 

[DarkMatter]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[SSonnentag]

The "subtle" middle finger from the monkey is funny.