AutoPilot Buddy now officially banned in USA!

[MIT_S60]

I never said there was an issue, only that it takes longer to turn the steering wheel if your hands are not on it to begin with. And, by extension, you have less time to prevent an accident. Is that time measurable: yes. Is it significant: possibly, I don't know, nor do I care (for the purpose of my original post).

Not addressing methods of ensuring attention, just the physical time to act.

The longest time taken is to recognize something as a threat/obstacle that needs responding to and decide how you'll react. If my hands are resting on my knees and I'm paying attention to the road, the time to grab the steering wheel is likely not what will make a difference on whether or not I take corrective action in time. If I'm holding onto the steering wheel but zoned out, I might not have the same reaction time to take corrective action. Everyone drives differently, and different things work for different people.

 

[Garlan Garner]

See Supercharger - Emporia, KS and more info later at Supercharger - Emporia, KS

What? What does your post have to do with falling asleep using AutoPilot?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

What? What does your post have to do with falling asleep using AutoPilot?

Didn't you bother reading the two linked posts from the Supercharger - Emporia, KS thread where the driver admitted he fell asleep while using autopilot?

Here's a longer excerpt from the linked post:

I actually fell asleep right before the toll booth in Emporia and woke up mid air after hitting the crash cushion and rolling the car several times. Thank God I didn’t kill anybody or myself. If those superchargers would have been installed in Emporia I could have just drove straight there and got some juice and went straight down to Wichita.

Now in no way shape or form am I blaming Tesla or autopilot for this by any means! I just simply fell asleep about a mile before the toll.

From the second linked post:

I sound like one of those retards that gets into an autopilot wreck and causes bad publicity butt like Elon has said, no system is perfect and accidents are going to happen. I should not of been driving that tired thankfully nobody was hurt or killed. I’m also not going on national TV blaming Tesla Service KC it was 100% my fault I should have stopped and got a hotel.

The only injuries that occurred to me were my right index finger had about a 1/2 inch cut That was bleeding pretty bad and my right middle finger had for small cuts from glass as well, my right knee was purple for a couple weeks from hitting the steering well but it’s fine and I had a small bruise on my Waste to from the seatbelt. I crawled instantly out of the car and wasn’t even busy I just got out and was praying nobody else was hurt or killed. Then I realized what had happened.

I’m actually glad that new software update makes you hold the steering wheel more often. Until the system is near perfect I think it needs to be that way. On the other hand I do think the car should have reacted a little bit differently. I don’t even think it even remotely tried to stop! It just smacked right into that concrete barrier going 74. But again my fault

 

[DarkMatter]

What method would you propose instead to determine driver engagement?

 

[drift]

What method would you propose instead to determine driver engagement?

How do we determine the level of driver engagement in all the non-Tesla vehicles with and without driver assist features, especially those with cell phones? Which I would say is a far bigger threat to public safety.

 

[SSonnentag]

What method would you propose instead to determine driver engagement?

I contend that attempting to police driver engagement is not the job of the manufacturer at all. It's solely the driver's responsibility, and any other occupants of the vehicle that deem it necessary to nag the driver.

 

[Cheburashka]

What method would you propose instead to determine driver engagement?

A rectal probe would be the next step. Only slightly more invasive than the current nag.

 

[mongo]

The longest time taken is to recognize something as a threat/obstacle that needs responding to and decide how you'll react. If my hands are resting on my knees and I'm paying attention to the road, the time to grab the steering wheel is likely not what will make a difference on whether or not I take corrective action in time. If I'm holding onto the steering wheel but zoned out, I might not have the same reaction time to take corrective action. Everyone drives differently, and different things work for different people.

Sure, but also out of scope, the original statement I replied to was:

There is absolutely no data I can find that says having your hands on the wheel is safer than not having your hands on the wheel if in both cases you are paying attention to the driving conditions around you.

-mongo out

 

[GoneCrazy]

However, I now see why Elon put in nags to keep your hand on the steering wheel, because of the NHTSA and people like you that get all into everybody business and hate on everything until its ruined.

Having a system in place to minimize the impact of your desire to put other people in danger with your disregard for the capabilities of the system is not getting into everyone's business.

 

[IhateOPEC]

Having a system in place to minimize the impact of your desire to put other people in danger with your disregard for the capabilities of the system is not getting into everyone's business.

Spending half your attention tugging on the steering wheel isn't safer than hand driving.

Every minute or two should keep you from falling asleep. (Since all it really does is check that you are awake, not if you are engaged mentally.) If I am so tired that this fails I should not be driving.

 

[GoneCrazy]

Spending half your attention tugging on the steering wheel isn't safer than hand driving.

Every minute or two should keep you from falling asleep. (Since all it really does is check that you are awake, not if you are engaged mentally.) If I am so tired that this fails I should not be driving.

If simply resting your hand on the wheel still results in constant nagging, then maybe it's time to visit a SC. There isn't any tugging or excessive draining force being applied to my steering wheel.

 

[NerdUno]

Too bad that Tesla doesn't include all the disclaimers in this thread and their (revised) user's guide in the contract that folks sign before buying a Tesla. And, of course, get rid of the glowing videos touting full self-driving which is just around the corner, three months or six months max. What horsesh*t. My guess is their sales numbers would take a nose dive.

 

[Electroman]

Do you lightly rest your foot on the brake at all times while your car is moving? If not, you're driving unsafely . . according to your own logic.

I love it. Great analogy for those fear mongers who say, if you don't keep your hands on the wheel you will be dead.

 

[Electroman]

I’ll happily continue to live in reality

Yes folks like me are driving and enjoying thousands of miles in AP every month - in our dreams.

 

[Electroman]

Having a system in place to minimize the impact of your desire to put other people in danger with your disregard for the capabilities of the system is not getting into everyone's business.

hmmm... I suspect you have gone crazy.

Forcing to keep the hands on the wheel does *nothing* to minimize the chances of an accident. Zero. Zilch. Nada

The only thing that improves safety is the driving paying attention to the road and be aware of the surroundings.

 

[GoneCrazy]

hmmm... I suspect you have gone crazy.

Forcing to keep the hands on the wheel does *nothing* to minimize the chances of an accident. Zero. Zilch. Nada

The only thing that improves safety is the driving paying attention to the road and be aware of the surroundings.

You seem VERY certain about your claim of absolute 0%. Willing to stake a P3D on it?

Your reaction time is greater when your hands are away from the wheel than on it? Also, do you think the people purchasing or using devices to circumvent nags are doing it so they can be more aware with their free hands?

 

[d21mike]

You seem VERY certain about your claim of absolute 0%. Willing to stake a P3D on it?

Your reaction time is greater when your hands are away from the wheel than on it? Also, do you think the people purchasing or using devices to circumvent nags are doing it so they can be more aware with their free hands?

I keep one hand on the wheel. But seems The Cadillac Super Cruise and Consumer Reports would disagree. CR says SC requires you keep hands off the wheel and that is best.

 

[GoneCrazy]

I keep one hand on the wheel. But seems The Cadillac Super Cruise and Consumer Reports would disagree. CR says SC requires you keep hands off the wheel and that is best.

I'm willing to be educated here. Have a link to the CR report? Also, isn't Super Cruise advertised as a hands free driving system?

EDIT: Did some Googling, and this is what I found from CR:

"We found when we tested the system that it works best when drivers keep their hands off the wheel. That’s because the system will turn off when it senses the driver taking over control."

 

[MIT_S60]

The used AutoPilot Buddy on eBay is up to $355 already, clearly some people see value in it!

 

[MP3Mike]

The used AutoPilot Buddy on eBay is up to $355 already, clearly some people see value in it!

Some people just like to collect banned items. Just look at Yard Darts. I don't know if they still sell for a lot on the black market but they used to.