So I’ve had my MY AWD LR for about 2 weeks, now. I haven’t really used autopilot much at all, just getting used to the car. Tried today on a clear stretch of 2 lane, well marked road and not only experienced the phantom braking 2x in a stretch of less than 2 miles but the second time had phantom braking with emergency auto steer. Absolutely nothing on the road, no merging cars, nothing approaching in other lane. Fortunately I was paying attention so no harm was done, but I have zero confidence in this system. The conditions couldn’t have been more perfect. Any suggestions?
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Autopilot Concerns
- Thread starter skidmarc
- Start date
I’ve tried autosteer on some major arterial roads - 2 lanes each side separated by a median, 50 mph speed limit - and autosteer gets confused and swerves going through intersections. Not worth the hassle IMHO, but obviously YMMV.
Autosteer definitely works better for me on freeways, but it can still get confused. One time a few months ago, I was driving with AP on the freeway, in the rightmost lane, approaching an entrance ramp merge; when the right side solid line went away for the end of the merge lane, autosteer swerved right - apparently thinking the lane suddenly got wider so it should move to the center of the lane. Ugh.
I’ve had a couple of episodes of phantom braking, but always at the same location, so there’s something about that place that trips it. I confess I’m one of those who would like the ability to disable the “TA” part of TACC and manage following distance myself.
The end result for me is I seldom use either autosteer or TACC because the extra vigilance they require is more stressful than just driving fully manually. This is partly due to the current situation though; I’m driving a helluva lot less than I did a year ago. If I were driving more, the foibles of AP might be easier to deal with. Again, IMHO and YMMV.
Autosteer definitely works better for me on freeways, but it can still get confused. One time a few months ago, I was driving with AP on the freeway, in the rightmost lane, approaching an entrance ramp merge; when the right side solid line went away for the end of the merge lane, autosteer swerved right - apparently thinking the lane suddenly got wider so it should move to the center of the lane. Ugh.
I’ve had a couple of episodes of phantom braking, but always at the same location, so there’s something about that place that trips it. I confess I’m one of those who would like the ability to disable the “TA” part of TACC and manage following distance myself.
The end result for me is I seldom use either autosteer or TACC because the extra vigilance they require is more stressful than just driving fully manually. This is partly due to the current situation though; I’m driving a helluva lot less than I did a year ago. If I were driving more, the foibles of AP might be easier to deal with. Again, IMHO and YMMV.
Even all the way through the Christmas update, I have the same issues as described above, so when I use AP, I use it with caution. This is the reason why I can't see spending a dime on EAP or FSD until they get basic AP working reliably. The entrance ramp issue is really one that irks me and it can be very dangerous if not caught quickly when the car veers abruptly trying to find the center of the lane. I've had violent phantom braking for no reason whatsoever, which freaks out the family!
Totally agree. I don’t have FSD, don’t want FSD. The car can’t handle this simple task well at all. We’re a long way away from secure FSD. And based on the amount of complaining about the car not being able to publicly fart, I’m not sure many people should have FSD.
I certainly think it's important to know the limitations.
I remember being quite disappointed with AP (and FSD) on my 200 mile drive home from collection. Over time, I have adjusted my expectations (MS not MY) and only use TACC in queuing traffic. I've had emergency braking and steering messages while (very safely) overtaking cyclists with no automatic systems active, and all manner of phantom braking. NoA tried to exit into a lay-by 1/4 mile before the exit / off ramp.
Now I only use these features when I am really concentrating and alone in the car.
I remember being quite disappointed with AP (and FSD) on my 200 mile drive home from collection. Over time, I have adjusted my expectations (MS not MY) and only use TACC in queuing traffic. I've had emergency braking and steering messages while (very safely) overtaking cyclists with no automatic systems active, and all manner of phantom braking. NoA tried to exit into a lay-by 1/4 mile before the exit / off ramp.
Now I only use these features when I am really concentrating and alone in the car.
RichAZ/CapeCod
Member
I agree with the posters in regard AP. I use it a great deal (just got the MY early Nov) in order to get used to it, mostly on non-highway streets. It's "OK." I don't recall any phantom braking, but the system can become befuddled when lines painted on the street open up or curve. Merge lines are particularly invigorating.
I really do hope that Tesla works out the kinks on both AP and FSD, but I fear that true FSD is still a bit of a ways more down the proverbial road.
Rich
I really do hope that Tesla works out the kinks on both AP and FSD, but I fear that true FSD is still a bit of a ways more down the proverbial road.
Rich
SD419
Member
Couldn't agree more. I posted about this back in October after our first road trip. We had several violent phantom brakes across 1k miles with absolutely nothing on the road and no one near us. It's far more stressful to use AP.
I guess the roads I drive in MD are more AP friendly. I use FSD almost every drive and rarely have an issue. Highways, back roads, exits, no problem. It drives 20 miles of my commute needing no input other than sending my hand on the wheel. The one exception is that one of the merges is often congested - I often handle this one merge because FSD is too aggressive. They need a "don't be a jerk" setting!
For what we’re discussing, anybody know the difference between AP and FSD? I’m assuming you’re not on the FSD beta?
laservet
Member
My experience as well. The quirks don’t bother me since a complete rewrite is on the horizon. As it is now it makes interstate driving much more relaxing, especially on long drives, and stop and go traffic in the city, too.
I find that autosteer (AP) works very very well as long as all these conditions are satisfied:
1. You are on a freeway.(because there are no surprises like cross-traffic)
2. The weather is clear (no rain or snow to obscure sensors or lane markings).
3. The lane markings are in good shape (because that's what the AI is looking for).
4. Your are not in the right lane with traffic merging at on-ramps (because it can't handle merging traffic and likes to swerve to the right)
5. You are not driving into the sun. (which will blind the sensors)
6. Everyone else is driving normally.(because it can't guess what a crazy driver might do)
7. You are not in a construction zone.(because that confuses the AI, and sometimes humans as well)
8. You keep your 'following distance' set to 4 or 5. (because that gives the car time to react).
Surprisingly, these conditions are satisfied most of the time that I am driving on the freeway, so I almost always use AP, but I keep both hands on the wheel. I definitely would not recommend AP on anything that is not a freeway. Yes, you can use it, but it's more stressful than just driving yourself.
1. You are on a freeway.(because there are no surprises like cross-traffic)
2. The weather is clear (no rain or snow to obscure sensors or lane markings).
3. The lane markings are in good shape (because that's what the AI is looking for).
4. Your are not in the right lane with traffic merging at on-ramps (because it can't handle merging traffic and likes to swerve to the right)
5. You are not driving into the sun. (which will blind the sensors)
6. Everyone else is driving normally.(because it can't guess what a crazy driver might do)
7. You are not in a construction zone.(because that confuses the AI, and sometimes humans as well)
8. You keep your 'following distance' set to 4 or 5. (because that gives the car time to react).
Surprisingly, these conditions are satisfied most of the time that I am driving on the freeway, so I almost always use AP, but I keep both hands on the wheel. I definitely would not recommend AP on anything that is not a freeway. Yes, you can use it, but it's more stressful than just driving yourself.
Yup. I use AP here all the time - on freeways and backroads and absolutely enjoy it. Very stress free. In my over 60k miles of driving, would have experienced phantom braking maybe 3 or 4 times. When I see a merge, i know and now anticipate it is going to move to the right, to center itself to the wider lane. Annoying, but since I know the behavior and anticipate it is not a deal breaker and doesn't bother me much .
DanCar
Active Member
I wish I had video, but I realized that my dash cam was disabled (another issue) after I upgraded. Software 2020.48.26, so was running the latest. Really disappointing. This is a recently paved road, with nice, bright and clean lines, there was no break, no dash, no intersection. 45mph speed limit on clear day. No rain, no snow, no condensation on cameras. Everything was perfect. Was showing it off for family on way to get brunch. Needless to say, they weren’t impressed (sadly neither am i). I still like the car, otherwise (although may change once I get my glass roof replaced due to a delivery fault that I found after pickup). I’m still battling SC over that.
I find EAP to be useful and fun, most of the time. But twice last Sunday, while on a 60 mile ride, it tried to steer me into the oncoming lane on curvy intersection. It still phantom brakes during highway trips, often for no apparent reason. And it keeps asking me to ok a leftward lane change onto the HOV lane in areas where there is a double white line and the change is not legal. I am surprised by how many mistakes the system continues to make.
Most phantom braking that I experience is due to AP picking up the speed limit of a side or cross road. Watch the display to see if the speed limit changes when you experience phantom braking - in my case it is repeatable on my daily drive at the same spots. Likely a GPS error either from my location or the maps.
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