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Autopilot draws first blood
- Thread starter Cardo
- Start date
Tam
Well-Known Member
I have no idea about the characters of A roads but the manual says:
"WARNING: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer on city streets, in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury or death"
With the first US Autopilot death in Florida highway with the legally posted speed of 65 MPH, the NTSB pointed out that that particular highway is not "limited-access roads" where there's a physical separation between 2 directions and drivers can only enter or exit the flow of traffic by freeway merging entry and exiting ramps only. That particular highway had an open median at intervals for drivers to perform a Lateral Turn Across Path (LTAP) or a left turn in front of your car and the Autopilot system is not designed for it.
NTSB wants Tesla to disable AutoSteer for roads that do not meet the critera for "limited-access roads" after the first fatal accident. Tesla defied NTSB and has not disabled it.
With subsequent fatal Autopilot accidents, NTSB again wants Tesla to disable its AutoSteer for roads that do not meet the criteria for "limited-access roads" but Tesla still does not comply and there has been an open conflict between NTSB and Tesla.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I am sorry for your bad experience with the Autopilot.
I admit that I do sound like defending Autopilot. I do not want undesirable results from Autopilot and I hope it will get better with time but I am more like a realist. In the very early days of Autopilot, I've learned that Tesla would not pay for Autopilot accidents. The first I've learned was from a driver on Autopilot and believed that the system would brake for the sudden stopped traffic in front on Interstate 5 at Tejon Pass in California in around 2015 or so (The driver could have stopped the car in time if the driver didn't depend on the Autopilot that time).
Tesla has not changed its position since then.
Tesla might express interest in an owner's autopilot accident but eventually, it has always concluded its investigation with the generic phrase that "the system worked as designed."
MrBadger
Badger out
Traffic light and stop sign control is a FSD TACC feature. Tesla are a bit less restrictive in their operational domain for TACC and it certainly covers areas with traffic lights and stop signs present.
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The damage is only to the rim of the alloy. The aero hub escaped unscathed. Wish it had been the opposite!
Unfortunately they designed it so that the alloy rim is still exposed on the outside of the aero cover. I'm waiting for my wife to give them a good scraping any time soon!
pdk42
Active Member
The fundamental truth is that TACC/Autopilot/FSD is not fit for purpose. Sure, in some circumstances, and when used correctly, it has some limited value. But that’s not how it’s marketed. Maybe it’ll get better, but at present, except in very limited scenarios, it’s not something that I would trust. Kerbed alloys are the least of my worries.
It's not that the alloys are particularly soft. It's more that the tyre walls provide minimal protection as they are quite narrow relative to the rim width.
darkNstormy
Member
Almost had a similar experience...
Be very very careful if you see a cycle lane marked on a pavement like this. AP sees the line as the edge of the road. I've driven along here with AP numerous times without any problem so got taken by surprise somewhat - I think one of the latest updates has changed AP in this regard.
As soon as I engaged AP I felt a strong pull to the left so resisted, turning AP off in the process. I think it would have taken me into the kerb without action.
I've otherwise found 2021.4.12 a pretty good update, until I found this.
Be very very careful if you see a cycle lane marked on a pavement like this. AP sees the line as the edge of the road. I've driven along here with AP numerous times without any problem so got taken by surprise somewhat - I think one of the latest updates has changed AP in this regard.
As soon as I engaged AP I felt a strong pull to the left so resisted, turning AP off in the process. I think it would have taken me into the kerb without action.
I've otherwise found 2021.4.12 a pretty good update, until I found this.
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AP has been getting WORSE with every update in the last 6 months. It'll now randomly move left/right in additional to brake checking anyone following you.
If I was cynical it almost seems like Tesla is doing it on purpose, gradually making standard AP useless......but wait if you 'upgrade' to FSD (when ever it comes out), things will be better.
If I was cynical it almost seems like Tesla is doing it on purpose, gradually making standard AP useless......but wait if you 'upgrade' to FSD (when ever it comes out), things will be better.
That's some theory, the flaw to me is I'm now less likely to spend more money on EAP or FSD because of it. If I thought they'd nailed the basics, then I'd be interested in the extra features, at the moment it feels like good money after.. well I can't say bad as AP was included as standard, but you hopefully get the point.
I thought I'd seen you had bought FSD when it was on sale so you must have FSD already, I'm not sure how you would know what AP is like?
Yeah - the flaws in Autopilot that never seem to improve put me off spending thousands on FSD. If I could see AP improvements happening I'd consider upgrading, but to pay thousands for a system which no doubt has even more simple flaws in it is out of the question.
One thing it has done since the start, is try to stick religiously to painted lines (like the post above about the cycle path). It seems to prioritise painted lines over physical objects like kerbs or cones, even though it can see those. To me that's mad. The lines should be a starting point, but physical barriers should never be crossed.
One thing it has done since the start, is try to stick religiously to painted lines (like the post above about the cycle path). It seems to prioritise painted lines over physical objects like kerbs or cones, even though it can see those. To me that's mad. The lines should be a starting point, but physical barriers should never be crossed.
As far as I know the code base for AP and FSD (non beta) is all the same, just rubbish.
TACC is AP without auto steer so it's just as prone to phantom brake, but it won't steer you into a kerb.
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