TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Autopilot during rush hour traffic .... a parting of the seas occurs .....

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by LostInSpace, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. BozieBeMe2

    BozieBeMe2 May I have this dance?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    Indy, Indiana, USA
    #61 BozieBeMe2, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
    In some cases, I suppose that your right But, in regards to the wipers, that neural network that you are referring to, is nothing more that a vision network. The last time I checked, Tesla is still using the forward camera to detect raindrops obscuring the field of view, pixelation.
    The same, 'If then/' logic,
    What you may be asking for is a 'Common Sense' logic, which I believe needs a neural network of 'Cross Talk', to the other cars to be sure of what those cars will do.
     
  2. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,873
    Location:
    California
    #62 chronopc, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
    The benefit of having the car do the driving is that it will drive the way it was programmed to vs. people who behave randomly.

    I am perfectly okay with a behavior as long as it's consistent.

    Speeding up to fill up a gap during stop and go traffic is really normal. In cities where there are a lot of traffic, people purposely do this so no one can get in front of them.
     
  3. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    6,997
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    It is normal, but unfortunately, it's the not checking your mirrors when changing lanes that causes trouble with this.
     
  4. conman

    conman Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Even on setting 1, the take off at traffic lights is glacially slow, so no.
     
  5. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,873
    Location:
    California
    I think the car does a good job at changing lanes. I noticed it's really conservative so it waits for a big gap before it does it.
     
  6. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,183
    Location:
    Delaware
    Not sure why you think the two are connected.

    Yes, the car is very hesitant coming off of a complete stop in all distance settings.

    That doesn't change the fact that changing the setting makes a big difference in both braking and acceleration beyond the initial bit.
     
  7. SigNC

    SigNC Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,298
    Location:
    NC
    I thin EAP acceleration in general is too aggressive, even in chill mode. I hate how it hammers down when i switch lanes into a clear lane. That being said i'm sure the distance it can check looking back in an adjacent lane is limited so perhaps it accelerates hard on purpose.
     
  8. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,735
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    Not yet..

    Good points.

    I don't think it needs to talk to the other cars necessarily. If my brain does not interpret an open space ahead of me in traffic as an opportunity to floor the pedal, the car shouldn't have to either. That's the whole premise of EAP with all it's computing power, cameras, sensors, etc. It should be more than just a dumb system.
     
  9. conman

    conman Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    That's precisely my point. I didn't think they were connected. I was referencing the fact that we'd like another setting to adjust the autopilot acceleration separately from the lead car distance.
     
  10. Economite

    Economite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Posts like this are what leave me really worried about the way Tesla communicates to its users how AP actually works.

    All of Musk's random tweets about "machine learning" and "deep neural networks" have left drivers with all sorts of ideas about the extent to which their individual Tesla needs to be "trained" by the driver and about the ways in which the cars passively provide data to help improve future builds.

    It's possible that Tesla has designed AP to "learn" and "be trained" the way you describe. But I don't think Tesla has ever explicitly said that's the way things work. Personally, I doubt it is. And if this is the way things work, then Tesla should more clearly explain that.

    As it stands now, with things left vague, it seems like Tesla is almost encouraging AP users to keep trying AP in situations it hasn't been able to handle in the past (either to provide "training" or to check to see whether AP can now handle the situation). Such unguided experimentation seems like a bad idea, especially if it is based on an incorrect belief about how "machine learning" works.

    Lots of folks criticize the Mountain View crash victim for using AP near a part of the road where he knew from past experience it didn't work well. To me, the talk of "machine learning" almost encourages this sort of experimentation. After all, if he didn't keep trying AP in that situation, how would he know that it still wouldn't work there. And, once it was successful a number of times in a row, how would he know that he had just been lucky and that the "problem" wasn't actually "fixed." The problem here is that if AP is 99% successful at navigating a stretch of road (and this is actually probably a low success rate), on average a driver can keep using it in that stretch and 99 times it will be successful, but on the 100th time, boom. Hard to not get complacent with those odds.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,183
    Location:
    Delaware
    Okay, but while the slow initial acceleration from a stop seems consistent across distance settings, the dynamic response at higher speed certainly isn't - and that's what I thought the discussion here was mostly about. You can't tell the car "follow really close" and expect it not to accelerate hard in an effort to follow really close when a gap opens.

    On a higher setting, it won't do that (but you'll get idiots trying to go around you even though you're going just as fast as the car in front because there are a lot of really stupid, aggressive drivers out there.)
     
    • Like x 1
  12. jtpassat

    jtpassat Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    391
    Location:
    Providence, RI

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC