AutoPilot free trials coming!

[Electroman]

I think I may have read it here or elsewhere - Tesla should have two options: One an outright purchase of AP for $5k, and another one that is subscription based something like 25c a mile upto $6k, and after that no more charges.

So essentially in the subscription model you pay 25c/mile upto 24k miles of driving in AP.

 

[Glamisduner]

I tried EAP during my test drive with a colleague's Model 3. It worked well on a congested Bay Area freeway in stop-and-go traffic as well as a short trip outside in a less busy area. That said, I didn't see anything that was significantly better than the driver assist in one of our current cars (an Audi with "traffic jam assist" and lane keeping). From what I have seen Tesla currently doesn't have anything in terms of technology that other manufacturers don't have, it's just that they are willing to take more risks by being less restrictive about when they allow the driver to activate the system. Depending on your perspective that may be good thing or the opposite.

Personally I wouldn't pay $5K for the current capabilities (the Audi driver assist package cost less than half of that), but of course there is the possibility that they will eventually implement the more advanced features that they promised. I'm somewhat sceptical after all the delays, but others may find the potential worth it.

I think I may have read it here or elsewhere - Tesla should have two options: One an outright purchase of AP for $5k, and another one that is subscription based something like 25c a mile upto $6k, and after that no more charges.

So essentially in the subscription model you pay 25c/mile upto 24k miles of driving in AP.

Then everyone would just get the subscription?
Also Autopilot is 5k new plus tax, plus interest and financing on your loan. Or 6k later (plus tax).

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Of course I understand and believe that Tesla is ahead of other manufacturer's option.

What I don't agree with is the $5k price tag for a software beta. Hell, the software is so beta that people are having problems that are causing accidents (You You) or near accidents.

"Beta" in Tesla's context does not mean the same thing that it means in the computer software context. It is not unproven, unsafe, or prone to error. What earns it the Beta designation is that it is feature-incomplete.

The reason for the increase in autopilot-related crashes lately is actually paradoxical. The AP software update that was pushed to all EAP cars in late April raised the maturity level of autopilot to a state that has never been seen before, surpassing AP1's capabilities. What this has caused is that drivers now trust the system so much that they're not paying attention, and the attention lapses are causing crashes.

From December of 2016 until January of 2018 (13 month period), EAP was active and available, but terrible with it's lane recognition and lane keeping. Yet there were no significant autopilot-related crashes during that period because drivers who did use the system watched it like a hawk.

After having driven for 3 years + 3 months with autopilot, and having done 4 major (2000+ mile) and a dozen minor (~500 mile) road trips during that time, plus daily stop-and-go traffic, I can tell you that AP is worth every penny of $5K, even feature-incomplete. And it will continue to get better and get more features for the life of it.

I do agree that a subscription model would suit many people better whose driving patterns do not enable the volume of miles that I use. I do hope Tesla will offer that in the future.

 

[RDoc]

I'd like to see a trial period for FSD. Obviously from the videos Tesla has it, just turn it on!

 

[Electroman]

Then everyone would just get the subscription?
Also Autopilot is 5k new plus tax, plus interest and financing on your loan. Or 6k later (plus tax).

No. Either pay ahead for $5k, or get into subscription that will cost you eventually $6K of course plus taxes.

Folks like me would pay $5k upfront and save $1k.

 

[trm2]

Subscription could be $100/month with no cap. If you keep it 72 months you have shelled out $7,200 (although @ 3% interest, present value of really about $6,500).

 

[Az_Rael]

Do you need to resume with adaptive cruise control?

Less often than standard cruise, but yes it would still be useful. I have to disengage the system regularly because it’s not great with folks cutting you off. It doesn’t see them coming, so waits too late to brake if I leave it on. There are also all the times I disengage out of full AP using the stalk or the brakes due to some situation Autosteer can’t handle, and resume would be nice in those situations too. (Disengaging AP with the steering wheel can be uncomfortable as mine is set to a higher torque, so ends up jerking the car by the time autosteer lets go)

 

[derekmw]

"Beta" in Tesla's context does not mean the same thing that it means in the computer software context. It is not unproven, unsafe, or prone to error. What earns it the Beta designation is that it is feature-incomplete.

The reason for the increase in autopilot-related crashes lately is actually paradoxical. The AP software update that was pushed to all EAP cars in late April raised the maturity level of autopilot to a state that has never been seen before, surpassing AP1's capabilities. What this has caused is that drivers now trust the system so much that they're not paying attention, and the attention lapses are causing crashes.

From December of 2016 until January of 2018 (13 month period), EAP was active and available, but terrible with it's lane recognition and lane keeping. Yet there were no significant autopilot-related crashes during that period because drivers who did use the system watched it like a hawk.

After having driven for 3 years + 3 months with autopilot, and having done 4 major (2000+ mile) and a dozen minor (~500 mile) road trips during that time, plus daily stop-and-go traffic, I can tell you that AP is worth every penny of $5K, even feature-incomplete. And it will continue to get better and get more features for the life of it.

I do agree that a subscription model would suit many people better whose driving patterns do not enable the volume of miles that I use. I do hope Tesla will offer that in the future.

I wouldn't say this is entirely correct. Yes, the features are not complete, but they rely on this 'beta' designation to avoid responsibility. If you use summon and the car suddenly turns the wheel and hits your garage door (there are threads where this has happened), they go back to the 'we told you it's still in beta'.

You cannot really tell someone as a fact, that it is worth every penny. In YOUR opinion it is. This is never going to be an argument that will be won. Some will gladly pay pay for it. I for one, have been using it for 3 years and will never pay that kind of money for it.

 

[chronopc]

You cannot really tell someone as a fact, that it is worth every penny. In YOUR opinion it is. This is never going to be an argument that will be won. Some will gladly pay pay for it. I for one, have been using it for 3 years and will never pay that kind of money for it.

So true. Worth is all relative.

Does any of the competition allow you to use their version of AP on city streets? My favorite thing about AP is how nonrestrictive it is. I expect to always be monitoring it so I don't mind taking over every now and again, but it's nice for it to do most of the hard work for me.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

I wouldn't say this is entirely correct. Yes, the features are not complete, but they rely on this 'beta' designation to avoid responsibility. If you use summon and the car suddenly turns the wheel and hits your garage door (there are threads where this has happened), they go back to the 'we told you it's still in beta'.

You cannot really tell someone as a fact, that it is worth every penny. In YOUR opinion it is. This is never going to be an argument that will be won. Some will gladly pay pay for it. I for one, have been using it for 3 years and will never pay that kind of money for it.

Tesla may reference the Beta designation, but in terms of legal liability it doesn't really matter. Autopilot convenience features in their current incarnation are level 2 automation, which requires immediate driver intervention for situations that the automation cannot handle. If you crash your car using summon, that's your fault because you didn't intervene fast enough, end of story. That's the case whether the system is called Beta or not.

Of course my evaluation of AP is my opinion, I never stated otherwise. If your experience with your AP1 Model S has led you to believe that its value is far less than $5K, I would say you have a level of expectation that the AP1 software doesn't meet. This begs the question: What does autopilot need to be able to do to be worth $5K to you?

 

[a.void]

This begs the question: What does autopilot need to be able to do to be worth $5K to you?

FSD

 

[cella]

The Audi only works at speeds under 37mph or has this changed?

The "Traffic Jam Assist" yes. But this actually offers more autonomy than the Tesla, as Audi specifically says the driver does not need to constantly monitor the car while it is in this mode. At higher speeds you still have active cruise control with stop&go and lane keep assists, which is very similar to what Tesla currently has.

Will it change lanes for you?

No, but I found this feature pretty much worthless at the moment, since it cannot detect cars coming up behind you, so it's still a manual process. On the other hand, Tesla doesn't have some of the more useful features that Audi has, such as cross traffic detection or top-down camera view (see here for a list of available features).

 

[SomeJoe7777]

At higher speeds you still have active cruise control with stop&go and lane keep assists, which is very similar to what Tesla currently has.

No, but I found this feature pretty much worthless at the moment, since it cannot detect cars coming up behind you, so it's still a manual process. On the other hand, Tesla doesn't have some of the more useful features that Audi has, such as cross traffic detection or top-down camera view (see here for a list of available features).

The Lane-keep assist in the Audi is not even close to what Tesla's autopilot does. It will ping-pong between the lane markers if you're not making adjustments to the steering wheel, it is not capable of keeping you between the lane lines at all on curves, and there is no side collision warning or avoidance. The Tesla autopilot is locked in the center of the lane at all times (minor exceptions on hard curves where it will drift towards the outside of the lane, but still stay within the lane), requiring no micro-adjustments from the driver.

Mercedes Distronic and Volvo's lane-keeping systems behave the same as the Audi's.

People need to stop the false equivalency between lane-keeping systems from other manufacturers and Tesla. Telsa autopilot is in a different class.

The only system out there that behaves equivalent to Telsa's is Cadillac's SuperCruise. However, it's only available on major interstates that have been pre-approved, almost all of them are inter-city, making the system useful only for road trips. In addition, there are no OTA updates, so the system as you buy it will never improve.

The one thing Tesla could learn/copy from Cadillac's SuperCruise system is the head/eye tracking software. That would enable the Tesla system to be completely hands free by using the camera to make sure the driver is watching the road instead of having to touch the wheel. The Model 3 has an interior camera that could be used for this purpose, and indeed I hope Tesla does this in a future software update.

As far as lateral turn across path (LTAP) detection, I have personally witnessed my Model 3 react to that exact situation (gave a forward collision warning alert). Tesla may not advertise it because it's not officially supported or ready, but the beginnings of LTAP detection software are in there and will grow.

As far as lane-change without driver input, that's part of EAP that is feature-incomplete, but my very car will have it at some point.

 

[drawfour]

For me, I'd just like for EAP and FSD to be "household" purchases that roam with you. You and anyone in your household who drives gets it, and the package stays with your household. Sell your Model 3 to get a Model Y? No additional $5k for EAP or $8k for FSD. Borrow a friend's car? EAP comes with because you bought it.

I know, it might be hard to verify that people aren't sharing codes. But I don't like a software option that has no underlying hardware requirements (since the hardware is present on all the cars anyway) that is tied to the device. I hated it when TiVo did that for their lifetime subscription. Just give me a code on my Tesla App, and when I pair it with a car, I indicate whether this is a borrowed car car or owned car, and it sets everything up.

 

[croman]

LTAP works great after 2018.10.4. it now doesn't overreact by braking too soon for turning cars that are a good deal away and getting out of the path.

 

[pmich80]

I would have loved to have gotten autopilot but at $7,500 after tax here in Canada it's really expensive. Just yesterday i realized that I have Cruise control working so that in itself really made me question if it was worth the $7,500. I'd really hope they add a subscription model down the road. Something i would definitely consider. I can't wait for the trial in the next few months.

 

[MP3Mike]

Just yesterday i realized that I have Cruise control working so that in itself really made me question if it was worth the $7,500.

Just remember that without EAP it is just plain ol' dumb cruise control. It will merrily ram into the car in front of you if they slow down.

 

[cella]

The Lane-keep assist in the Audi is not even close to what Tesla's autopilot does. It will ping-pong between the lane markers if you're not making adjustments to the steering wheel, it is not capable of keeping you between the lane lines at all on curves

What model are you referring to? Our Audi does not "ping-pong". It works just as well as Autopilot did on my test drive (I only ever use it on freeways though).

and there is no side collision warning or avoidance.

Our car definitely has side collison warning (I believe it even takes some precautions such as tightening the seat belts and closing the windows when it detects an impending side collision). It also has a feature called collsion avoidance, but I don't know exactly what it does.

People need to stop the false equivalency between lane-keeping systems from other manufacturers and Tesla. Telsa autopilot is in a different class.

Is it though? I have the impression that many people on this forum have never experienced the systems that other brands have. Autopilot is more hype than anything at the moment as far as I can tell from my test drive. Now if they actually implement things like automatic exit-to-exit freeway driving including interchanges etc. then they'll have something.

The only system out there that behaves equivalent to Telsa's is Cadillac's SuperCruise. However, it's only available on major interstates that have been pre-approved

In my view that is preferable to allowing drivers to use the system in places where it doesn't operate safely (not just for the driver's sake but also everyone else's who share the road with these cars).

 

[chronopc]

In my view that is preferable to allowing drivers to use the system in places where it doesn't operate safely (not just for the driver's sake but also everyone else's who share the road with these cars).

I am not sure it's really any safer. Safety depends on how aware the driver is. I've used EAP a lot on city street and it works just as well as the freeway. The only difference is that the driver will need to step in and stop at red lights and stop signs.

 

[timk225]

Justify the extra $1000 to buy AP after getting the car. That is a blatant money grab, something Tesla is good at.