TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Autopilot: If changes require "hands on the wheel at all times" who will use, buy?

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by X Yes?, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. X Yes?

    X Yes? Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Location:
    San Diego
    Would this be a deal breaker?
     
  2. Spiderz

    Spiderz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Los angelss CA
    no one. If one has to keep hands on the wheel all the time, then why turn on auto-pilot. It is better to use TACC. I think next release of autopilot will have more cameras (6) and enhanced mobileye chip so that should make it to level 3 autonomous. For level 4 (full), we need to wait 4~5 years.
     
    • Informative x 1
  3. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,569
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    Have you ever driven any distance with AP?

    We use AP all the time and always have a hand on the wheel. We love it.

    IMHO, driving with AP without having a hand on the wheel and paying attention to what's going on around you is getting pretty close to the irresponsibility level of texting while driving.
     
    • Like x 5
    • Informative x 1
    • Love x 1
  4. sillydriver

    sillydriver Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Middleburg, va
    My P85DL is a great car that I would still have bought if no autopilot was offered. With that said, requiring that hands be always on the wheel would cut my use of AP to situations where I briefly wanted to do something distracting like check a map or place a call. I would keep one hand on the wheel and use the other to perform the task. After that I would turn AP back off. I've been a user of AP since it was introduced, and for me at least, using it for an extended stretch with hands on the wheel is worse than pointless. I say "worse" because I steer a little differently than it does, so that when I've tried it with hands on the wheel I end up fighting it. The result is that it ends up disengaging after a fairly short time. I believe that for safety's sake a car should only have one source of steering inputs at any given time, and when my hands are on the wheel (except for the brief exception mentioned above) I want it to be me.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
  5. X Yes?

    X Yes? Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Location:
    San Diego
    Good points. Sounds like you would not spend the 2.5K, if hands must be on the wheel at all times.
     
  6. Footbag

    Footbag Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    487
    Location:
    Edmonton, Canada
    I'm of a very similar opinion. When I have AP on (which is a lot of the time), I tend to have hands off the wheel to not interfere with AP. On long road trips, I end up resting a hand at the bottom of the wheel, only to defeat the 'hands on' message/reminder every five minutes (my hand being there it isn't really helping with control/safety).
    Hands off does not equal not paying attention. On certain roads (curvy/bad lines/etc), I will have hands on wheel in a normal position, ready to take over. Really, it would be easier to just turn AP off in those situations, but I like seeing how AP will do.

    On a recent road trip, I tried to get my wife to use AP going on some slightly curvy roads. Wife of course wanted her hands on the wheel. Trouble is, she kept disengaging AP by accident. It was simply easier to not have AP on. She wouldn't feel comfortable doing the one hand at bottom like I was doing (and I sure wouldn't want an uncomfortable driver in charge of the car!). Its an interesting challenge... it would almost be better if magically the car could track your eyes rather than your hands, to ensure you (mostly) were looking forward.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  7. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    3,195
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Its not a deal breaker for me. I'm buying AP with my M3. I'm FULLY loading my M3.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  8. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    Won't be a deal breaker for me. I am more interested in TACC than auto steer.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  9. kavyboy

    kavyboy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Magnolia, TX
    I always rest my right elbow on the center console and keep my hand at the wheel on the bottom. It's just a natural resting position that I would use even if AP were 100% autonomous. And yes, I've had to take over immediately when a car switched lanes directly into me and was able to do so in an instant to avoid the accident. So, "hands on the wheel at all times" would have no effect on me personally.
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,440
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Honestly, this whole AP thing is starting to play out exactly the way I expected it to. People would expect too much of it too soon, people would start trying to shift the blame for driving snafus away from themselves and onto the automaker (one of the reasons I was never really an AP fan from the very beginning), debates would go on endlessly, hands on wheel, hands off wheel, rules will be hands on, reality will be hands off in most cases, investigations, competing interests, political footballs, and one giant can of worms the size never seen before. It's a helpful piece of rope, not the greatest but pretty good, that some will appreciate and others will tie into a noose to try to hang the one who gave it to them.

    I don't have AP and don't really care about it. If I had it, I would agree to take full responsibility for the vehicle while the system was active because, in the end, I think that policy is the only way the whole idea will ever really work. I would try to stay alert with hands ready, but I would probably not keep my hands on the wheel. I would also only use it scenarios where the driving conditions are simple -- well marked divided highways without road construction or other anomalies.

    What are you going to do? It will never be perfect. Never. Autopilot is like adding another driver. Do you let him drive or do both of you try to drive at the same time? You can keep adding more inputs, more double checks, where all or most of the inputs have to agree, but going down that road leads to drive by committee, and we all know how fond most people are of "by committee" operations. Pick your poison.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
  11. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,115
    Location:
    Wantagh, NY
    Not a deal breaker but certainly it would be a disapointment. I am looking forward to using the AP on my trips upstate but do not envision giving control over to the car. That is not the purpose of AP but some appear to have taken it that way. Elon tweeted shortly ago that in the PA. accident AP was off! That is a reminder people will blame AP before taking responsibility themselves
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. Pdub2015

    Pdub2015 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Wheaton, MD
    Not for me.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  13. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,731
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    Doubt Tesla will do that unless somehow mandated by law. But if they are required, everyone else will be required as well (otherwise the law is discriminatory and therefore illegal). And if required, why would you NOT buy for this reason? It's not like you'd be able to go to some other manufacturer for a better system (which you can't do anyway, because they're all worse).
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  14. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,457
    Location:
    NV
    Hands always on the steering wheel here. Keep it at 5 & 7 o'clock to rest the arms and shoulders (and natural weight of my arms on the wheel at that position probably prevents nags, never gotten one). I move it to 3 & 9 when things start looking dicey. I'm still the one driving.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  15. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    3,195
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Don't your arms get tired....hovering over the steering wheel at 5 and 7?
     
    • Informative x 1
  16. ShotgunF15E

    ShotgunF15E Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    It already does. Haven't you read the manual? Clearly states to keep your hands on the wheel.

    If people would stop sleeping or watching movies while driving we'd have a lot less accidents with Teslas.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  17. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    The Americas
    Having just driven 12,000 miles in 4 weeks, I can say that TACC was good, Autosteer was marginal to good, and that keeping 2 hands on the wheel at all times would be an absurd overreaction.

    Fortunately, Congressional meddling aside, it is entirely possible that Tesla will stay the course and not allow recent events to become a distraction.

    At the same time, it wouldn't hurt to implement a quarterly owners e-newsletter to remind owners of best practices. Best practices while driving, while charging, while deciding whether to tie up SvC resources with an appointment or whether a simple log review will do, that sort of thing.

    Just as the vast majority of SCs are never crowded, the vast majority of owners manage to drive their chariots every day without incident. This entire effort would be to get from good to great, or from already-best to even better.
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  18. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    California
    Many of us bought our MS with no autopilot or TACC enabled. Now that I've had it for a while, it would be very hard to go back. I hope the bed wetters and hand wringers don't prevail and that science and facts overrule emotion and ignorance.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
  19. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,457
    Location:
    NV
    Not hovering. Just resting my hands on the lowest point of the steering wheel. It keeps my shoulders down and comfortable. The car is happy w the weight, and I just let the wheel move my hands. You really have to deliberately turn the wheel to take it out of autosteer.
     
    • Informative x 2
  20. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    3,195
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    There is absolutely no way Tesla is going to go backwards concerning cowbells and technology.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1

Share This Page