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Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

Discussion in 'Model S' started by wk057, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    #1 wk057, Jul 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
    Greetings. A discussion about this was started over in the Firmware 6.2 thread, but probably doesn't quite belong. I had also been planning a post about this around now anyway.

    If you've kept up with my gripes over the P85D, you'll know I had a somewhat arbitrary grace period in mind for Tesla to release the auto pilot lane keeping functionality. Let's face it, this is really the main thing everyone wants. A lot of features have been added which use most of the hardware, but none of them can be considered "autopilot" just yet, which is the line item on my vehicle's options.

    That grace period I had in mind for Telsa for the release of lane keeping has come and gone now. So, I'm starting to put out emails outlining my concerns as a first step towards deciding how to proceed.

    With nearly 8000 miles of driving planned for June through September, autopilot was definitely a key factor in my decision to trade up from my P85 at a much higher than negligible cost. When I described my summer driving plans to anyone at Tesla throughout the purchase process I was reassured quite a few times that the feature would almost certainly be usable by then. 2000 miles into my June to September chunk of driving plans and that feature is still not available.

    I know Elon had mentioned at the shareholder meeting that beta testers would maybe get access to the new software towards the end of June, but this doesn't affect me at all (despite unsolicited recommendations for addition to the EAP from multiple Tesla service managers). So it doesn't change the date I had marked on my calendar regarding this. (I guess they could add me now and I'd have to shut up under NDA... but, doubtful they'd do that. lol)

    The auto pilot lane keeping was demonstrated nearly 10 months ago. At that time the Tesla website said that the features would be completed and rolled out over "several months." A couple of optimistic Tesla employees I spoke with at the time even very optimistically interpreted this to potentially be by the time I took delivery of the P85D or soon thereafter. Realistically I figured it would be in my hands, so to speak, by the end of Q2'15, and this seems more than reasonable to me and others I spoke with for a paid feature that was already publicly demonstrated.

    Now it is Q3'15, over 6 months after delivery, and still no lane keeping. I'm willing to let a lot slide, overall, with regard to the P85D... from real world range being nowhere near what Tesla had advertised when I placed my order to advertised horsepower numbers not actually being achievable. But the autopilot lane keeping feature was the showcase feature of the new hardware suite. It was (and still is) part of a paid extra option that many, if not nearly all, opted for.

    By Monday I'll be ready for my P85D's first annual service based on mileage. That means 1/4 of my factory warranty is done already... a warranty that covers the autopilot hardware. Well, part of that hardware, the auto steering hardware, has never even been able to be used, yet even if autopilot were fully activated Monday 25% of the warranty on that hardware would be gone. TACC was released quickly enough to perhaps give Tesla a pass on the couple thousand miles I had on the car at the time with regard to the rest of the autopilot hardware... but this is a bit much to let slide for the auto steering.

    I've reached out to Jerome with my concerns, who has in the past been very responsive, however an auto responder places him out of the office until August. I've also reached out to a few different Tesla employees that I've established good relationships with, with the same concerns, and am awaiting a response on where they suggest my concerns should be escalated.

    I plan to continue to respectfully address this all with Tesla personally as much as possible as time allows over the next several weeks. Honestly, I don't expect a resolution to come from any of that contact, and I highly doubt we'll see autopilot lane keeping updates (publicly) even this summer... Essentially, if the car doesn't do a main thing I purchased it for (autopilot for my thousands of miles of summer driving), then, as mentioned previously, I'll most likely consider legal recourse. This is definitely something in the realm of a class action case if pursued, and I'm not against that if needed to press this further at that time. (Edit: Stop reading so much into this. This is an absolute last resort if Tesla becomes unreasonable. I believe they are a reasonable company and that legal action will not be needed. However I'm not going to waive my right to pursue it, here or elsewhere. See more below)

    At this point I wouldn't be surprised if others are considering even more drastic tactics, like jumping straight to legal action. I wouldn't blame them, as it's within their rights to do so. I've been pretty frustrated with Tesla regarding a lot of things surrounding the P85D. They're not building a whole lot of good will and credibility here with all of the missteps.

    Honestly, I don't expect this post to have any effect on Tesla's timeline (or lack thereof) for the release of autopilot. I figured I would address my concerns and how I'm proceeding here, and perhaps other equally frustrated early adopters may do the same.

    Frankly, to solve this and solve it now, Tesla is going to need to release autopilot and it's going to need to "wow" everyone to the point where concerns are alleviated and essentially forgotten due to the sheer awesomeness of the new features. They still probably have a small window of time in which to pull that off. I, and likely a bunch of others, would likely oblige. But more delays and eventually the "wow" factor it's not going to matter enough, and there will be consequences for Tesla both legal and image wise. If I finish the vast majority of my summer driving without autopilot functionality then that will be it for my personal good graces on the subject.

    Here's hoping they get it done and pushed.

    ----

    I feel like this needs reiterating as apparently some people are jumping to conclusions.
     
  2. tezzla

    tezzla Member

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    #2 tezzla, Jul 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
    Next week will be 10 months since the "autopilot" demo. I don't think that qualifies as "released over the next several months". I think they're getting into the "class action suit" territory. I am one of many that took a huge financial hit and traded up my P85 (< 1 yr old) to the P85D on that promise.

    Side note: I just got my Next Gen rear seats installed 6 months after receiving my car (and I had to bitch a number of times to "speed up" that process)
     
  3. 70Dan

    70Dan VP of R&D at ConstructBuy

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    Well said.

    I didn't get the autopilot package on my new 70D because I figured if they haven't released auto-steering by now, it might yet take a while.
    Also, I don't do that much highway driving anyway and I was already stretching my budget with this purchase so I went with Ultra HD sound instead.

    I totally understand the frustration you and other long time owners may have at this point.

    Hopefully it will be released soon! When it is, and if it's really WOW as you said, I might consider adding that option post-delivery...
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    I feel the same way you do about this Jason, but I can also imagine what it must be like for Tesla.

    While I totally agree they shouldn't have placed a timeline of "several months", or perhaps have even demonstrated the auto-steering capability, I realize that it's a very tricky feature to get right 100% of the time.

    Given that it does something substantially more involved than the other auto-pilot features, save perhaps for traffic-aware cruise control, that removes action from the driver, I'm sure there are many scenarios that are difficult to deal with. For example, lane markers disappearing, lanes merging, new lanes appearing, snow covering lanes, etc.

    I still want the auto-steer feature ASAP as I was also sold on it (don't forget I had the first P85D on this forum), but I also want to make sure it's implemented in such a way that it can proactively deal with all sorts of edge cases - otherwise we'll have a bunch of accidents, bad press, and no one wants that (except, perhaps, for Tesla haters...)

    Here's to hoping for a prompt, SAFE release of auto-steer :biggrin:
     
  5. 70Dan

    70Dan VP of R&D at ConstructBuy

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    Really good point, that's another factor that made me want to wait until a few months after it's released before considering buying autopilot.
     
  6. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Wasn't there another poster who threatened Tesla with legal measures and they pulled his Model X reservation and are not allowing him to buy any more Tesla's?
     
  7. spentan

    spentan Active Member

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    I kinda agree with this,

    but unfortunately there is no better alternative.

    I bought a 2015 S550 last year, and sold it within 2 months, because the self-driving capabilities were crippled by the nanny saying you had to put your hands on the wheel.

    I will probably have a Model X before the full Autopilot suite is released.
     
  8. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    This was my thinking on the matter a couple of months ago.

    But basically it boils down to how it was sold. They did a working demonstration 10 months ago. They said it would be available in "several months"... 10 months ago.

    As a hardware and software dev, I definitely understand the challenges in getting something complex to work just right. But honestly, if they weren't already nearly there (like, guaranteed done in a couple of months) they shouldn't have done anything mentioned in the preceding paragraph. That is what I have the problem with. Delays are fine and expected (hence giving them 10 months before really complaining). But, no updates on progress at all aside from some quick scattered comments from Elon rarely. For example, If they had come out and said autopilot wouldn't be available until Q1'16 back in say, January or December, I wouldn't be here writing this now.

    My gripe boils down to being sold something and paying for something that I can't actually use with no additional reliable information provided beyond that.

    We all definitely want it to be released and be safe and perfect right off the bat, but that's probably not going to be the case and there are going to be incidents. Personally, I'd happily sign a waiver if if meant I could actually use the feature in some capacity. 8000 miles over a few months is a lot of boring driving.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I remember reading something about that... I also recall that the guy was basically an a*****e and treated Tesla employees disrespectfully... so, I don't blame them.

    I, on the other hand, am always very respectful and professional in my communications with Tesla.
     
  9. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    Be that as it may, is it ever really a good idea to discuss/threaten lawsuit before you are actually prepared to do so?

    I understand your frustration for not having a feature you were promised, and since I'm not in your situation I don't really have room to comment either way...so I won't. I'll simply say that I'm not sure discussing a lawsuit this far out will be beneficial, especially when discussing a "class-action" lawsuit.

    I do hope this quickly gets resolved for all those in the same boat.
     
  10. DrumCoder

    DrumCoder Member

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    I'm guessing that the functionality isn't ready yet, and they realize that if they let it out in its current version, something terrible might happen, and they'd get sued.

    On the other hand, if they continually delay the functionality, there's a chance they'd get sued.

    I'd bet if they had to choose who sued them, they'd rather see the living breathing person upset that they were mislead by false advertising in court rather than the family of someone who died because they rushed out functionality prematurely to appease people who couldn't wait.
     
  11. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    Tesla time = Tesla stated time + 12 months.
     
  12. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker Beta Tester

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  13. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    I can understand the frustration but I think we all want this to be released no sooner than when the system has been thoroughly tested and it's ready for general use. They've said this will be released this summer so I think it is fair to give Tesla until the end of the summer before beating them up too hard about this matter.

    I honestly think they are doing everything they can to get this out the door and they are working to make the system as safe as possible. Let's give them that time...
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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  15. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    Reminds me of "No soup for you." :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svSGKJFSl-8
     
  16. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    If someone is buying a car for a feature in a planned software upgrade, why not wait until that software has been released and found to be working correctly before buying the car? I understand early adopter, bleeding edge, etc. but buying a >$100,000 car because of certain software function, before the software is even available, seems premature. Especially a Tesla with its known "Tesla time". If someone is considering buying a Tesla but wouldn't be happy with the way the car functions at the time of purchase, I would suggest delaying the purchase until the car has the desired feature and works to your satisfaction.
     
  17. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Class action lawsuit? WTF??? Why is it in America when people don't get their way as they perceive it to be, they immediately jump into litigation? Furthermore, buying a car because of a "promised" feature with no set launch date and then bitching about it after the fact is just dumb. Totally dumb. Tesla sells the car to you when you buy it based on what's available at that time. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. If you truly threw away money to upgrade your car based on a feature that didn't exist yet then the only one you can blame is yourself.

    I really don't get it, what exactly are you upset about? Tesla never promised a date, just gave an extremely vague timeline. If you took that as literal then I have a bridge to sell you.

    Jeff
     
  18. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    I think a lot of you misunderstand my gripe. I don't want them rushing an unfinished feature. I want to know why they gave the perception and sales material that made it appear to be just about ready (demonstration and statement of several months).

    Basically if they can't stick to their time line, give us a heads up. If Tesla had given any indication at the time of purchase that it wouldn't be available this summer, I wouldn't have had an issue. Heck, any update would have been great for morale.

    Also, my tax situation would have made it much more expensive to upgrade this year vs this past December. So since I wanted the feature it had to be then.
     
  19. Oil4AsphaultOnly

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    I think the OP would be satisfied with being on the beta testing list (with signed NDA). Since he's a hardware/software dev himself, wouldn't his input be both more comprehensive (8000 miles of terrain that the Tesla team might not have encountered) and complete (detailed with all relevant environment variables)? Sounds like if Tesla's reading this posting that they should consider the idea?

    Edit: Following OP's last post, so would an announcement in Mar 2015 that, "we've encountered technical difficulties and won't be able to release auto-steering until Q1 2016" have been sufficient?
     
  20. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    I agree completely. I think the OP makes a valid point but you really "Vegan Yourself" (refer to 2015 Q1 shareholders meeting for definition) when you come out too strong and sound unreasonable. If this was for a trim matching center console, fine go ahead and press them to release it ASAP but we are talking about software that literally is in charge of life and death. Give them the time and breathing room to do all their testing and get this right before they release it to the public.

    It is valid to bring up this issue but don't "Vegan Yourself" with threats of a lawsuit because you won't get anywhere with a lawsuit that is based on vague timing given by the manufacturer. You will likely en dup having to pay Tesla's court costs and be banned from being a customer in the future.

    Maybe Tesla should release a video of where the system stands now just to show customers the present state of the technology and assure customers that the technology is nearing completion but apart from that let Tesla take the time to get this right.
     

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