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Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

hhh

Member
Mar 16, 2014
30
0
Boston
How can the following statement on the Model S product page dated October 10, 2014 not be considered false marketing?

"Changing lanes becomes as simple as a tap of the turn signal. When you arrive at your destination, Model S will both detect a parking spot and automatically park itself."

I love my Tesla and don't really care too much, but I do think Tesla should make big announcements of features they can actually deliver in a reasonable time frame. Proclaiming the car does automated parallel parking 9+ months before it actually does is just plain wrong.

To be completely honest, I'm more afraid the "next gen" Nvidia based auto pilot will be out around the Model X launch and that Tesla moves on, so we all have old tech they don't care much for improving in the future.
 

wk057

Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,656
11,388
Hickory, NC, USA
I'll reiterate that legal action is a last resort and is definitely NOT the preferred path here, nor is it being pursued at this time, nor do I intend to pursue legal action right now. I am not, however, dismissing legal action as a potential avenue for resolution.

I fully expect Tesla to come up with some gesture of good faith towards those of us who have been more than patient on the matter that will quell the need for any legal action for at least some time.

Like I said... an official progress update would be nice. A statement that warranty on autopilot hardware wouldn't start counting down until after 7.x was released would be more than enough for me, personally. Offer to refund/disable autopilot cost until it is available (as mentioned above). Something. Anything that proves that us early buyers weren't just victims of a marketing ploy and I would be happy. I'm sure most others would as well.
 
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MsElectric

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,604
18
New York
That would be a fair resolution as opposed to thousands of customers giving Tesla 0% interest loans. Would I opt for it? Maybe. The option in itself would be a gesture of good will at least.

As for Elon's statement it was that they hoped to get testers on board by thr end of June. I mentioned in my OP that this has no bearing on my gripes.

Well, I think that is fair if that is what you really want...

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You haven't driven a new S-Class then.

The S class requires that you keep your hands on the steering wheel or tape two beer cans to it... :)
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,577
22,013
Texas
No offense to anyone, but hasn't everyone here been around the block at least a couple of times?

When you purchase any hi-tech product (video, audio, computer, or car), purchase it for what it can do at the time of purchase, not for what it might do in the future. Now I don't doubt that Tesla will make good on their promises, unlike some video and audio manufacturers I can name, but it will take longer than initially anticipated--these things always do--and I don't expect to see the full release until 7.x.x (and probably not 7.1.x).
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,676
1,926
Teller County CO
If there is one fundamental issue I've had with the Tesla model from day one, it's the adaptation of the "Apple" model to a car. What I mean is, the idea of no model years, changing things on the fly, etc... For obvious reasons as a publicly traded company they can't tell us what's coming as it'd impact current sales. On the flip side one of the things that has made me very nervous about buying one, and a large reason why I haven't yet, is because I don't want to be that person who misses out on a major feature enhancement by a week simply because i didn't know it was coming when I ordered. I held out for LTE, now it's here. Now I'm concerned that ventilated seats might be coming "soon" or the 360 degree camera view as rumored with the Model X. I don't know when to jump. To those who justify this by saying "it's still a great car" or "you'll love it regardless" good for you, but for me, that's not how I'm wired.

I just don't see how this model is sustainable when the Model 3 comes. The average car buyer isn't going to understand why their Model 3 does't have something someone else's purchased only a few days\weeks apart does.

Furthermore, as noted several times in this thread, Elon tends to speak beyond the technical progress of his team leaving the rest of us to decipher what "several months" actually means. This inevitably leads to frustration, confusion, anger, and resentment by the very customers your trying to keep. Sometimes I think that Elon\Tesla thinks that once someone drives their car they'll never consider something else again, thus once they get you in the door, they have you for life. It's almost arrogant.

As for me, I still don't understand why the OP is as frustrated as they are. Anyone here should know by now, take nothing as fact until you can see it\touch it\buy it...

Jeff
 

kuttakamina

Member
Aug 23, 2014
709
2
DC
Just adding my voice to the main topic of this whole thread. About time Autopilot was rolled out.
Autopilot was the #1 and only reason I went with new vs. CPO.
In all sense of semblance, autopilot and 7.0 should have been out already.
I'm hoping we will see it tonight :biggrin:

Also judging by the attention this thread has gotten, the frustration around this is quite huge.
 

donv

Member
Jul 15, 2013
599
47
Lake Jeanclia, OR
Infiniti already does what Tesla claims autopilot will do, although Infiniti uses less hyperbole to describe it. And, they've had it for a couple of years now.

Cadillac is about to start selling something which will do even more than what Tesla claims to do.

In my opinion, TACC is the technically more difficult part of the system, anyway. Most of the potentially bad scenarios involve the throttle and brakes, not the steering. Keeping it between the lines on a highway isn't all that difficult-- see Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Not for any technical reason. I'm pretty sure they require that because it's a German regulation.

The S class requires that you keep your hands on the steering wheel or tape two beer cans to it... :)
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,686
5,706
Merced, CA
I understand your frustration but you do realize that when they announced the Auto Pilot capabilities they were to be released in stages? It's not like they have done *nothing* for 7 months. Instead they have activated and implemented these features every few months when it is safe to do. So I think the premise that customers have been waiting 7 months for nothing is not fair.

What they are about to release no other automaker present is offering. If this was easy someone else would have done this already. If they need 2 more months to get this right do you really want them to rush this out?

They shouldn't release the feature before it's ready especially where safety is a concern, but to say "a few months" before auto steering is available is not something they should have said unless the feature was practically ready to be released.
 

TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,642
8,470
Austin, TX
If there is one fundamental issue I've had with the Tesla model from day one, it's the adaptation of the "Apple" model to a car. What I mean is, the idea of no model years, changing things on the fly, etc... For obvious reasons as a publicly traded company they can't tell us what's coming as it'd impact current sales. On the flip side one of the things that has made me very nervous about buying one, and a large reason why I haven't yet, is because I don't want to be that person who misses out on a major feature enhancement by a week simply because i didn't know it was coming when I ordered. I held out for LTE, now it's here. Now I'm concerned that ventilated seats might be coming "soon" or the 360 degree camera view as rumored with the Model X. I don't know when to jump. To those who justify this by saying "it's still a great car" or "you'll love it regardless" good for you, but for me, that's not how I'm wired.

I just don't see how this model is sustainable when the Model 3 comes. The average car buyer isn't going to understand why their Model 3 does't have something someone else's purchased only a few days\weeks apart does.

Furthermore, as noted several times in this thread, Elon tends to speak beyond the technical progress of his team leaving the rest of us to decipher what "several months" actually means. This inevitably leads to frustration, confusion, anger, and resentment by the very customers your trying to keep. Sometimes I think that Elon\Tesla thinks that once someone drives their car they'll never consider something else again, thus once they get you in the door, they have you for life. It's almost arrogant.

As for me, I still don't understand why the OP is as frustrated as they are. Anyone here should know by now, take nothing as fact until you can see it\touch it\buy it...

Jeff
If you keep waiting for the next feature enhancement, you'll never buy the car. At some point you just have to decide to pull the trigger and understand that you're not going to have the latest and greatest for very long. Enjoy it for what it is, or don't buy it. You can't stop progress by insisting on progress only happening once per year.
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,278
151
Nevada
I think a lot of you misunderstand my gripe. I don't want them rushing an unfinished feature. I want to know why they gave the perception and sales material that made it appear to be just about ready (demonstration and statement of several months).

Basically if they can't stick to their time line, give us a heads up. If Tesla had given any indication at the time of purchase that it wouldn't be available this summer, I wouldn't have had an issue. Heck, any update would have been great for morale.

Also, my tax situation would have made it much more expensive to upgrade this year vs this past December. So since I wanted the feature it had to be then.

I always thought they were vague about it and said it would be release in stages over the coming months. I understand wanting the feature but for something this critical they can't release it unfinished. They have some awesome people working on this project so it will come. The demo was in a much more controlled environment than what is out there in the wild.

- - - Updated - - -

They shouldn't release the feature before it's ready especially where safety is a concern, but to say "a few months" before auto steering is available is not something they should have said unless the feature was practically ready to be released.

True but 'a few' is purposely vague. Now If that turned into more than a year I agree but they didn't say 'ready on June 15th at 5PM' and missed the target.
 

Sosius

a.k.a. Uptown Frunk
Apr 21, 2015
160
3
Gulf Coast
I'm guessing that the functionality isn't ready yet, and they realize that if they let it out in its current version, something terrible might happen, and they'd get sued.

On the other hand, if they continually delay the functionality, there's a chance they'd get sued.

I'd bet if they had to choose who sued them, they'd rather see the living breathing person upset that they were mislead by false advertising in court rather than the family of someone who died because they rushed out functionality prematurely to appease people who couldn't wait.

Totally agree. Safety first. However, they should consider starting the warranty on the autopilot hardware when the hardware becomes fully operational.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,351
3,346
Phoenix, AZ
I understand your disappointment, but really?

You bought a product based upon a vague promise of something that will occur at some point in the future. By your own admission, now in the record, you placed an "arbitrary" deadline for said feature that would be acceptable to you and you alone. The reason you have stated for upgrading to the new vehicle was so that you could obtain this new feature - again, with no real deadline promised by Tesla other than "in future software updates" - in time for a specific drive you were planning on making. The necessity of this feature by your arbitrary deadline, according to you, is so you don't have to do all of the driving yourself.

Good luck finding a judge anywhere in the country who would find any sympathy for you. You painted yourself into a corner all on your own, and by your own admission. Anyone can sue anyone in this country for almost anything, but that doesn't mean you have a valid complaint or cause of action. You certainly will not be able to show any damages due to Tesla's not delivering the feature by your arbitrary deadline. Your trade-in and upgrade costs are not damages, because those did not arise directly from the non-delivery of the software and you also received much more than the single software update in the bargain. Your damages would be defined as what you incurred as a result of Tesla not delivering said software, and even then, Tesla never promised that you would receive it by a certain date. Your damages would be simply that you had to hold the steering wheel during your journey. What value do you think any court of law will put on that?

Unfortunately, anything that a salesperson or any Tesla employee said to you that wasn't in writing isn't really admissible and would constitute hearsay.

Ultimately, after spending tens of thousands of dollars to sue Tesla, this will be the end result...

tumblr_m9cckmRlJK1rd2qw6o1_400.gif
 
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MrClown

Autosteer Beta Tester
Oct 3, 2014
222
46
Denver
Also, my tax situation would have made it much more expensive to upgrade this year vs this past December. So since I wanted the feature it had to be then.

Your choice was to 1) wait to see the feature you want in the wild and pay more for it or 2) pay less ahead of time and then wait to get that feature. You chose option 2 and you got some value out of that in the way of paying less for the thing you want. It didn't have to be option 2; it's what you felt provided the most value to you.

Obviously we all want the lane keeping as soon as possible. I just finished a 3300 mile road trip in 8 days and dreamed about lane-keeping the entire time. My wife was sick of hearing me point out how nice it would be to have that over and over. I'm still thrilled with the car and I don't feel duped by the marketing yet. If they take until next year, I might be annoyed but I'd survive. If they never release lane keeping though, that could change.

Unfortunately, we've all seen how Tesla time works. We've all seen how inadequate their communication is. What I don't see is how talking about lawsuits, even just as a possible future path, is constructive or helping your cause. Everyone knows lawsuits are an option to everyone. It's like saying "I might break out my umbrella if it rains tomorrow." Why say it at all unless the intent is to threaten? Certainly that's how anyone would interpret, even if it's not how you mean it.
 

eye.surgeon

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
1,368
2,014
California
I understand your disappointment, but really?

You bought a product based upon a vague promise of something that will occur at some point in the future.
They promised limited release of auto steering by the end of last month. Didn't happen. They promised autosteering "in a few months" , last year. Didn't happen.

The website has been promoting it for the better part of a year with a bogus disclaimer about how it's being released in stages in small print. You can do that if it's almost available...but a year in advance? Borderline false advertising. Why not promote your flying car while you're at it...heck it will be available eventually.

These aren't exactly vague promises.

love my car, no regrets, but come on. There are several cars with more sophisticated autopilot features sitting on dealers' lots right now. They act like they are blazing the trail, perhaps they were a year or two ago, they're playing catch-up now.
 
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S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,354
6,023
Snohomish, WA
At no time did I ever see anything anywhere that suggested that the full autopilot package would be ready by now. From everything I read at the very earliest it was going to be late August or September. For some reason I remember seeing late summer as the estimated guess.

The only hint of auto-steering actually becoming available was the news article that said beta testers were about to start testing it.

Now I'm not counting anything the Sales people at Tesla said. I didn't ask the "when will it be fully released" question because I knew they'd answer it falsely. I knew not to trust them on that question. The OP trusted them for some odd reason. Maybe he has more trust in humanity and he isn't a massive cynic like I am.

Those of this that purchased this package did so at a risk knowing it could be awhile before Version 7 and the last of the Autopilot features would be released.

I purchased it because it worked well enough as is to justify $2500. Now that isn't to say that I didn't debate about whether to get it or to hold off. I'm not a huge fan of the pre-order, pay now, deliver later world things are turning into. Despite my reluctance I did order it, and I'm glad I did because the TACC works well enough on it's own to justify the money. I can't say the same for lane departure or blindspot monitoring (probably not part of this package anyways). Both of those things are next to useless. One I keep off, and the other I don't pay any attention to. But, I suppose it can act as a backup in case I make a mistake.

I should add that I did feel like Tesla was playing a very dangerous game with the autopilot package, and a game in which I hope they stop playing.

Anytime you sell a widget promising some software enabled feature down the road you're putting yourself into a position of not being able to fulfill that promise. You're not selling what actually works at the time of delivery. We have no idea how well lane following will work, or whether auto parking will really be trust worthy. There might be a lane following capable car on the market that functions well, but I'm not aware of any. The ones I'm aware of have some limitation that makes them unusable. Either you have to keep your hands on the steering wheel (or tape a coke bottle), or they do so many corrections that it's entirely unusable unless you don't mind looking like a drunk driver. What makes TACC work so well for so many of us is because it's not constantly overreacting. In my testing at least it is rougher than I'd drive, but it's not bad. I think it gets buffered a bit by the electric/regen nature of the car. So it's a perfect mix of technology.

I'm really cynical about how well lane following or auto parking will work. I think both of these two things will be massively limited to the point that there is nothing to get worked up about. It's like waiting for your team to lose the superbowl.

Autosteering will probably work fine for long straight-aways with clear lines. Anywhere that there is any inconsistency in pavement, or dullness in the line it will pop up some dreaded "lane following not available message".

Autoparking will require at least 12 inches clearance everywhere, and it won't see lots of things. You can only get out of something what you feed into it, and even in my limited 1 month ownership I've noticed the parking sensors can't deal at all with the height of what's in front of you. It has no mechanism to tell if you'll clear a curb or not. Sometimes it will go from 20inches down to 12, and then it will pop up to 28. So I know its REALLY 12 or less than.
 
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Jun 20, 2012
87
333
New Jersey, USA
First, I think the OP raises a valid point, the essence of which is that the demonstrations in October at the D reveal and the surrounding statements were a bit 'forward-looking'. I also agree with the many posters who saw it as *the* game-changing feature for them.

I'd just like to add one small additional data point to this thread. That is, last June (perhaps at the shareholders meeting?) Elon said that 12 months from now, you'd be able to drive 90 percent of your miles without touching the steering wheel. Also a similar statement about driving hand-free from highway on-ramp to off-ramp (note that his emphasis of this feature indicates Elon held a similar view about it being a game-changing feature.)

I recognize that not everyone who bought the car based on the D-event heard that June '14 statement, nor should they have necessarily even made the association between the June '14 statement and the D event statements. But for me personally, I have been calibrating my expectations based on the June '14 12-month prediction. As a result, my personal "you're late, Elon" clock began ticking on July 1, and not any earlier.
 

kuttakamina

Member
Aug 23, 2014
709
2
DC
True but 'a few' is purposely vague. Now If that turned into more than a year I agree but they didn't say 'ready on June 15th at 5PM' and missed the target.

Sorry, but I'm calling shenanigans on that. In the Q1 conf. call (March 19 I think?), Elon said "Autopilot will be released in 3 months".

It's been > 3 months now.

Here is my grand prediction -

Major firmware update announcement next week, semi autopilot enabled, firmware rolls out over next 4 weeks.
Full autpilot, more like October/Decemberish.

You heard it here first people!
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,351
3,346
Phoenix, AZ
One of the highest ranking officials at Tesla promised significant but limited release of auto steering by the end of last month. Didn't happen.

Not true. Elon Musk said, barring any complications, he expected to have the software in beta tester's hands by month's end. You have no data to disprove that it hasn't gotten into beta testers hands, and even if it didn't, what the CEO stated was an estimation during a shareholder's meeting that contained a large disclaimer at the beginning regarding forward looking statements. You don't have a leg to stand on in this scenario. None.

The CEO of the company promised autosteering "in a few months" , last YEAR.

Then your court case will revolve around the definition of "few", which the last time I checked means "a small number" of something. The definition of "small" is "something less than normal or usual". Has Tesla's response here been less than its normal or usual response? I think you already know the answer to this.

The website has been promoting it for the better part of a year with a bogus disclaimer about how it's being released in stages in small print.

Nothing bogus at all. Tesla has absolutely been releasing it in stages. We received TACC, lane departure assist, speed assist, blind sport warning... all of those were rolled out in stages.

There are economy cars with more sophisticated autopilot features available right now.

Yes there are, but none of that is relevant to the OP's situation or threat of lawsuit. In fact, opposing counsel would probably ask OP why, if other cars had this feature that was so important, didn't OP purchase one of those vehicles? The answer, clearly, would indicate that OP received much more than this single feature in the bargain, including other features that the OP valued far and above this single feature available in other makes/models.
 

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