Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[jeffro01]

Being a share holder , I would expect you to understand how some customers are angry at the delay, lack of communication.

You're making an assumption about my complete thought process on this based on one specific response to one specific persons perspective. I think 'wk057' is grossly over reacting, to the point of being completely unreasonable. Do I want anyone to sue Tesla? No, not at all as the risk to the stock price taking a negative hit because some anti-EV investor group, Seeking Alpha comes to mind, latching onto this as some sort of doomsday situation for Tesla is quite high still. I also think though, at some point cooler heads have to prevail, at some point...

As an investor and someone who is\was\maybe\might\someday buy a Model S, I believe Elon made a PR misstep in demoing the autopilot functionality until much, much closer to it's actual launch date. I believe that he did it thinking they (the engineers) were much closer than they actually were. I also think Tesla has done a very poor job at trying to reset that expectation. I don't believe Tesla has done anything illegal\dishonest\insincere\scandalous\etc... and feel the knee jerk reaction that some people have to jump into litigation is unfounded.

Jeff

 

[KK2]

I see, so because I don't own a Model S currently then I'm banned from responding to, or starting, any posts on TMC? Neat, when did that rule start?
Jeff

Dude, no! You are welcome to post. It's just that it's hard to give your opinions the same weight as it is to the owners of the car. That's all.
It's a first hand experience versus a second hand opinion issue.

Lets forget Model S for a second. Lets say, you are 'very interested' in NBA but haven't played it ever. Versus wk057 is Michael Jordan.
And both of you are expressing different opinions about basketball. Who would you be more willing to trust?

- - - Updated - - -

How about people discuss the issue, instead of each other?

+100

 

[wk057]

Nothing Tesla is going to offer you is going to cure this feeling that you have causing you to feel like you've been cheated.

Ignoring the rest of your post because it just repeats the same nonsense.

While I can't speak for others, there is plenty Tesla could do to remedy this situation with me personally and some avenues to remedy this to my satisfaction would cost them absolutely nothing. How about them apples? So don't presume to know what will and will not work to remedy this for me.

As for why whether or not you own a Model S or not plays a factor in this, regardless of how little you think it matter, actually does put some weight (or less weight) on your statements. If you were in my situation or any other's who were mislead you may be singing a different tune, simple as that.

So you're saying that something you required for this summer's driving trips...
a mission critical component...
the decision of what to purchase relied on that one feature...
...and was decided based on the expectation of hype from a high tech company?

So rather than purchasing any number of other cars that had this mission critical capability, you HAD to have a Tesla and it HAD to have those features or you wouldn't've purchased it?
I call bull. Either you were fooling yourself then or fooling yourself now. I agree. Sue away, it'll certainly make for additional interesting threads.

You, like others here, presume to know my thought process and feelings on matters of this you have zero insight or information.

The autopilot feature was not sold as a next year item. It was sold as if it were essentially ready. Sold by some as if by the time I took delivery the car would have the software. 90% of my questions to Tesla prior to pulling the trigger on a net ~$50k upgrade from my P85 to the P85D were regarding autopilot. I have emails, text messages, and voice message to the same as well as my MVPA, configuration from my order page, and shots of the order page from the day I confirmed the order (and reconfirmed). The other 10% were about the second motor and additional horsepower. I even have a text message from a gentleman at Tesla sales something to the effect of, "Yeah, all while laying down 691 HP. That merc doesn't have insane mode. " When I was comparing features of the P85D vs a comparably priced MB vehicles that, prior to the autopilot announcement, I was considering as a long trip vehicle until Tesla got their supercharger network done on the remaining routes I wanted.

So again, don't presume to know the details of my decision making process.

As a lessee of an Autopilot S85D I'm am eagerly waiting for the update. I might be pretty disappointed as well, if I'd been into the car for a full year before the update came - but I'd either not've acquired the car if it were that critical, or, like I am now, just be pleased that I have it, it's wonderful for all the right reasons and it'll be like Christmas when the new features arrive.

You're definitely in a shrinking minority of customers who are fine with this whole situation. As a lessee who is paying for a feature that they will be able to use for maybe 2/3rd of the lease... I'd be much more annoyed.

 

[jeffro01]

Lets forget Model S for a second. Lets say, you are 'very interested' in NBA but haven't played it ever. Versus wk057 is Michael Jordan.
And both of you are expressing different opinions about basketball. Who would you be more willing to trust?

Bad analogy as one requires a special set of skills that few possess while the other just requires cash and a decision...

Jeff

 

[wk057]

Lets forget Model S for a second. Lets say, you are 'very interested' in NBA but haven't played it ever. Versus wk057 is Michael Jordan.
And both of you are expressing different opinions about basketball. Who would you be more willing to trust?

I like this analogy. I got a lol out of this.

 

[perkiset]

How about people discuss the issue, instead of each other?

Heh. Where's the fun in that, right? :wink:

 

[wk057]

Bad analogy as one requires a special set of skills that few possess while the other just requires cash and a decision...

I actually thought it was clever. I've owned three Model S, been an investor in TSLA for several years, have been knee deep in the technical workings of the battery pack and retrofitting it for my solar setup, and the technical workings of the vehicle itself (via helping others with salvage repairs and such) for some time now.

Pretty sure that doesn't let you dismiss my knowledge and experience in the matter by just thinking I threw a wad of cash at Tesla with no thought behind it.

 

[Cyclone]

beta to end of customers by August 15th and then to public 1-2 months after that? Than what the heck was with Elon's tweet about the "almost ready" to release auto steering and parallel park? Almost ready = 2.5 months?

It was almost ready for Elon's testing on his personal car apparently.

 

[jeffro01]

Ignoring the rest of your post because it just repeats the same nonsense.

The autopilot feature was not sold as a next year item. It was sold as if it were essentially ready.

Again, and again, and again, you can call it nonsense all you want, I call it a fact. You know that pesky little thing that yanks the rug out from under you. Please tell me how it was sold as essentially ready? I'd love to read why you think that. I have never gotten the impression, and yes I watched the autopilot event as soon as the DVR replay went live, I've looked at the website countless number of times and I've never seen\heard anyone from Tesla say or write that the full functionality was there or that it would be there by X date. Neither can you. You can eiether accept that reality or you can refuse to do so. Either way the choice is yours. I still maintain you should quit all of the thrashing around and sue, while your at it get class action status since you claim that only a minority of customers are happy.

Jeff

 

[Soolim]

There was no "forward looking statement" disclaimer or advisory anywhere during the Autopilot and D launch event. Not everything the CEO says is covered by a blanket "forward looking statement" unless the disclaimer is made specifically during that announcement or session - as it is during the shareholder meeting. What Elon is doing here is making himself look incompetent.

No CEO likes to make himself/herself look bad. Clearly they have a challenge that they had not fully realised 10 months ago. Our loyal behaviour in tolerating the multi-year delay of MX spoiled them. But as the company expands, Tesla will have a wider range of customer to please. The challenges of MX (falcon door) and M3 are still to come, hence I am in no hurry to place a reservation for MX. My current MS do just fine.

 

[Zaxxon]

FFS, people, this isn't hard to understand. WK is disappointed because as an owner looking forward to autopilot, he's upset that he doesn't have it 8 months after delivery and 10 months after announcement, and that he now knows it will be at least another month. I can't blame him. I'd be less than enthused in his position, too.

Jeff, as an investor, is disappointed that folks are lining up with pitchforks.

I am, too. But as a fellow investor, I'm more disappointed that Tesla has put itself in this position: self-inflicted customer disappointment. At this point, semantic arguments over what was said aside, it's clear to anyone with open eyes that Tesla jumped the gun announcing what they did, when they did, in the manner that they did. Today the site is still much less clear and much more flowery than it should (IMO) be. If autopilot was an isolated case that'd be one thing, but Tesla's modus operandi lately is to over-promise.

Tesla made its own bed here, and along with other areas fomenting customer disappointment, I'm less enthused about the company then I have been in some time. I don't think what they have done is fraud, but it's certainly not delivering a great customer experience.

I still have great hopes/expectations in Tesla's long-term future, but I have to admit I'm thinking long and hard about whether I want to follow through on my X reservation. They're just not a grown-up or well-oiled company at this point in time. An X would be on the order of 3x my typical vehicle purchase price, and that's a leap when confidence in company statements and long-term costs is iffy. It's true that what they're doing is industry/world changing and certainly challenging, but that can't be a carte-blanche excuse forever.

 

[jeffro01]

I actually thought it was clever. I've owned three Model S, been an investor in TSLA for several years, have been knee deep in the technical workings of the battery pack and retrofitting it for my solar setup, and the technical workings of the vehicle itself (via helping others with salvage repairs and such) for some time now.

Pretty sure that doesn't let you dismiss my knowledge and experience in the matter by just thinking I threw a wad of cash at Tesla with no thought behind it.

Again, why does any of that have any bearing? Its like you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night... I don't care if you've bought 500 Teslas and single handedly kept the company alive during it's darkest days. You are owed nothing by Tesla, or anyone else for that matter, and you are so far in the wrong here you have no choice but to dig in and hold the line.

Jeff

 

[KK2]

No CEO likes to make himself/herself look bad. Clearly they have a challenge that they had not fully realised 10 months ago. Our loyal behaviour in tolerating the multi-year delay of MX spoiled them. But as the company expands, Tesla will have a wider range of customer to please. The challenges of MX (falcon door) and M3 are still to come, hence I am in no hurry to place a reservation for MX. My current MS do just fine.

Actually in today's call Elon said it wasn't the falcon door that was the problem.
The reason for the delays was the thinly sculpted middle seat supplier.
He said something to the effect of The seat is a work of art, but hard to make. That is the reason for the 'production delay'.

I've always wondered though, how will that falcon door work with 12 inches of snow on top.

Anyway, I'm happy with my S and no desire for an X.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Again, why does my ownership of one have any bearing on whether or not I believe certain people are acting unreasonable? Your using it as some sort of membership card to the "club"...

Jeff

I think it's a credibility thing.

 

[perkiset]

You, like others here, presume to know my thought process and feelings on matters of this you have zero insight or information.

With nearly 8000 miles of driving planned for June through September, autopilot was definitely a key factor in my decision to trade up from my P85 at a much higher than negligible cost.

Actually, you've made your position, thoughts, gripes and intentions abundantly clear. Repeatedly. My point is, essentially, caveat emptor. Interestingly, although I've coveted a Tesla for more than 2 years, I've been holding off for a long time to let them really bake in. I have no faith in timelines, salesperson presentations, best intentions, forward-looking statements, any of it. My purchase decision was based 100% on what WAS, not what I HOPED would be ... or worse, what I'd allowed myself to be convinced of.

You've been a programmer for "20ish years" - you of all people should know this. Even if you, yourself, have never been late on a project, if you've been in the industry for ANY amount of time you should know the reality. If you chose to ignore that, and your experience on the hope that they would get it right, then you got what you bought. Smoke features.

You're definitely in a shrinking minority of customers who are fine with this whole situation. As a lessee who is paying for a feature that they will be able to use for maybe 2/3rd of the lease... I'd be much more annoyed.

I don't think so. Looking back at the 100+ pages of this thread, it just seems that the others that are ridiculously pleased fatigued of the whining and left.

I think it's a huge fallacy to assume that people purchase Tesla for that one feature. People purchase Tesla for a variety of reasons, but I'd wager that, predominantly, it's about the ride, electric, 17" screen, caché of it, elegance, exclusivity ... about a million reasons that may or may not include or even value Autopilot. I think you're actually in the very vocal minority of people that, when confronted with the most amazing car on the planet, still find it inadequate.

 

[KK2]

I am, too. But as a fellow investor, I'm more disappointed that Tesla has put itself in this position: self-inflicted customer disappointment. .

^^^ Bingo! Someone give this man a cookie!

I've been an investor in TSLA for a very long time. I've made a lot of money on the way up, and I will make a lot of money on the way down.
TSLA has huge challenges ahead of them. I LOVE THE CAR! The stock, not so much!

 

[Soolim]

It was almost ready for Elon's testing on his personal car apparently.

Would it make sense at least from a publicity point of view to show EM beta test-driving the AP on public road? Would that make you happy WK057, and give Tesla more time to perfect the AP?

 

[bonnie]

I actually thought it was clever. I've owned three Model S, been an investor in TSLA for several years, have been knee deep in the technical workings of the battery pack and retrofitting it for my solar setup, and the technical workings of the vehicle itself (via helping others with salvage repairs and such) for some time now.

Pretty sure that doesn't let you dismiss my knowledge and experience in the matter by just thinking I threw a wad of cash at Tesla with no thought behind it.

Nor can you dismiss others who have other experiences. Let's quit rating each other (or ourselves).

I'm just having a really hard time getting worked up over this issue. Sorry. Every single person here is tech savvy. So not buying all this emotion. There's a lot of convenient manipulation of numbers going on, like 'a few months was expected' but then that isn't factored in to 'a year late!!!'.

And before I get nailed with the 'you don't know what it's like!!!' response, ummm ... three words for you: Signature Model X. You've had more updates in the last MONTH then we've had in in the last year. Yet I'm not hearing about what compensation we're entitled to or potentially pursuing legal action. Because, well, there's that tech savvy thing again.

It's not a contest. Investors also have skin in this game, since perception of the company impacts stock price. And jeebuz, I have to agree that IF you're unhappy, do something about it. I vote for having this thread renamed otherwise so people have fair warning before clicking on it.

 

[wk057]

Again, and again, and again, you can call it nonsense all you want, I call it a fact. You know that pesky little thing that yanks the rug out from under you. Please tell me how it was sold as essentially ready? I'd love to read why you think that. I have never gotten the impression, and yes I watched the autopilot event as soon as the DVR replay went live, I've looked at the website countless number of times and I've never seen\heard anyone from Tesla say or write that the full functionality was there or that it would be there by X date. Neither can you. You can eiether accept that reality or you can refuse to do so. Either way the choice is yours. I still maintain you should quit all of the thrashing around and sue, while your at it get class action status since you claim that only a minority of customers are happy.

This will be the last time I reply to your posts since you're obviously just trolling me now. Either that or somehow you're missing the entire point of the issue of misrepresentation regarding the P85D in general around launch. Autopilot is not the only thing that was clearly misrepresented here.

As for an exact date, why would the company need to give a release date for something that has always been spoken of in the present tense, even in the initial presentation. No where in the initial presentation does it even indicate that these features weren't available at that time.

I've already said that if Tesla doesn't remedy the situation to my liking, which honestly is probably way less trouble and infinitely less expense for them than even a legal battle that I ultimately lose (which I'm far from convinced would be the case), then yes I will likely sue Tesla and yes it will likely end up being a class action case that rolls in all of the issues at hand as is well within my rights to do so.

Again, I am not taking any legal action today, nor do I foresee the need to do so personally in the future as it is much more likely Tesla will remedy this before it comes to that.

 

[bonnie]

I think it's a credibility thing.

I'd buy that if people who AGREED with being upset with delayed release of autopilot were also being told they had a credibility issue - but I just can't find one of those posts. Those are all +1'd, etc. So it appears that 'do you have skin in the game' is only asked of those who disagree.

THAT is a credibility issue. Yes?