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Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,786
12,616
Hickory, NC, USA
Nor can you dismiss others who have other experiences. Let's quit rating each other (or ourselves).

I'm just having a really hard time getting worked up over this issue. Sorry. Every single person here is tech savvy. So not buying all this emotion. There's a lot of convenient manipulation of numbers going on, like 'a few months was expected' but then that isn't factored in to 'a year late!!!'.

And before I get nailed with the 'you don't know what it's like!!!' response, ummm ... three words for you: Signature Model X. You've had more updates in the last MONTH then we've had in in the last year. Yet I'm not hearing about what compensation we're entitled to or potentially pursuing legal action. Because, well, there's that tech savvy thing again.

It's not a contest. Investors also have skin in this game, since perception of the company impacts stock price. And jeebuz, I have to agree that IF you're unhappy, do something about it. I vote for having this thread renamed otherwise so people have fair warning before clicking on it.

Bonnie, sorry. A Model X reservation (or 2012 Model S or whatever) is not an apples to apples comparison. Model X reservations are reservations for a future product. You put down a deposit knowing full well you wouldn't have to pay the full price of the product until it was in your hands. We bought and paid for vehicles with features that are unavailable and have no simple way to back out and forget about the situation.

As I mentioned, I *am* doing something about it and have written this many times. Just because I'm not suing Tesla doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.

As for renaming the thread, if anything it should simply be updated to say "over 7 months" now, although that would make the OP confusing.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd buy that if people who AGREED with being upset with delayed release of autopilot were also being told they had a credibility issue - but I just can't find one of those posts. Those are all +1'd, etc. So it appears that 'do you have skin in the game' is only asked of those who disagree.

THAT is a credibility issue. Yes?

That's not really fair, actually. There are no questions about skin in the game or credibility in most cases on either side since it's known one way or another the answer to that question already (previous posts... signatures with lists of Model S........)

Edit: On a side note, it's obvious that you disagree with the feelings expressed by myself and others on this issue... and, as is common among those who disagree, it's worth noting that you are not on our side of this particular fence either. (As in, you don't own a post-autopilot announcement Model S)
 
You've been a programmer for "20ish years" - you of all people should know this. Even if you, yourself, have never been late on a project, if you've been in the industry for ANY amount of time you should know the reality. If you chose to ignore that, and your experience on the hope that they would get it right, then you got what you bought. Smoke features.
I don't think so. Looking back at the 100+ pages of this thread, it just seems that the others that are ridiculously pleased fatigued of the whining and left.

I think it's a huge fallacy to assume that people purchase Tesla for that one feature. People purchase Tesla for a variety of reasons, but I'd wager that, predominantly, it's about the ride, electric, 17" screen, caché of it, elegance, exclusivity ... about a million reasons that may or may not include or even value Autopilot. I think you're actually in the very vocal minority of people that, when confronted with the most amazing car on the planet, still find it inadequate.

I would pretty much agree with that.

Yeah, I wish Autopilot was done, but TACC by itself has already taken care of enough that I am not terribly pissed, either.

Sure, it was promised to have certain features (lane holding, self parking), and sure it isn't available, but that doesn't change the fact that the car is more enjoyable to me than my Panamera was on a long road trip, anyway.

When you are buying a Tesla, you are buying a Beta. Some parts of Beta are good (bleeding edge), and some are bad (sometimes features aren't done on time, or have major bugs).

Would you prefer that they released Autopilot with bugs as serious as the Trip Planner? I wouldn't.

Personally, I thought Tesla bit off more than they could chew immediately after the Autopilot announcement, and I'm not surprised that it has taken a while. I still hope they make good, though.
 
Actually in today's call Elon said it wasn't the falcon door that was the problem.
The reason for the delays was the thinly sculpted middle seat supplier.
He said something to the effect of The seat is a work of art, but hard to make. That is the reason for the 'production delay'.

I've always wondered though, how will that falcon door work with 12 inches of snow on top.
No one in Tesla will tell you what is the real problem in the delay of MX. You are wondering about the falcon door which I speculated could be "one" of the real problem. The sculpture seat challenge is not the big deal, remember the Next-Gen seat delays? They could always ship with the "standard" seats in the meantime, with an option for the sculpture seats as an expensive and delayed option, so I doubt the explanation given today on MX delay.
 

breser

AutoPilot Nostradamus
Aug 28, 2014
2,314
94
North Bend, WA
beta to end of customers by August 15th and then to public 1-2 months after that? Than what the heck was with Elon's tweet about the "almost ready" to release auto steering and parallel park? Almost ready = 2.5 months?

I haven't seen anyone else have this thought. But did it occur to anyone that, maybe just maybe, Elon is now giving a conservative estimate. Granted we have no way of knowing. But before you decide to get out the pitchforks and go visit Palo Alto. You might want to consider that they've heard the complaints about missing the dates they have given and are now giving ones they are sure they can hit.

I'm not upset about this because of the following reasons:

1) I presumed this was going to take a long time to be actually delivered. My estimate was Q4 2015 for auto steering right from the beginning. So I'm not sure the project is even late. It's hard to tell since other than vague statements like "several months" Tesla has never given a date.

2) As I pointed out in a lengthy post further up in this thread (that if you haven't ready it you should). Being upset isn't going to get me anything.

Tesla hasn't been perfect angels here. But I do think that to a large degree some owners have set themselves up to be disappointed by expecting something that was never really promised.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I wish Autopilot was done, but TACC by itself has already taken care of enough that I am not terribly pissed, either.

You can add the above to my list of reasons why I'm not annoyed. TACC by itself gave me 75% of what I cared about. Not steering is just gravy to me.

- - - Updated - - -

No one in Tesla will tell you what is the real problem in the delay of MX. You are wondering about the falcon door which I speculated could be "one" of the real problem. The sculpture seat challenge is not the big deal, remember the Next-Gen seat delays? They could always ship with the "standard" seats in the meantime, with an option for the sculpture seats as an expensive and delayed option, so I doubt the explanation given today on MX delay.

Not that this is a Model X delay thread, but it's not like they just have an old known to be working seat design just laying around like they did with the Model S.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,615
3,217
It's still amazing to me that all of this is still in the present tense on the website. Tesla has shown a willingness to change the website quickly and radically but something so fundamentally misleading has remained for months. I'm, frankly, more upset as a Tesla shareholder than as a P85D owner and driver.
 

breser

AutoPilot Nostradamus
Aug 28, 2014
2,314
94
North Bend, WA
Bonnie, sorry. A Model X reservation (or 2012 Model S or whatever) is not an apples to apples comparison. Model X reservations are reservations for a future product. You put down a deposit knowing full well you wouldn't have to pay the full price of the product until it was in your hands. We bought and paid for vehicles with features that are unavailable and have no simple way to back out and forget about the situation.

You have somewhat of a point. Bonnie could get her deposit back anytime she wants at the cost of losing her Signature vehicle.

On the other hand, she's put up $40k for a 2 year late vehicle. Even if you use the full cost of the Autopilot package $2,500 the difference in investment is significantly more.

So quite frankly, I think Model X people have just as much of a right to be annoyed as you do. But neither of you are going to get anything for being annoyed about the delay.
 
Last edited:

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,786
12,616
Hickory, NC, USA
I haven't seen anyone else have this thought. But did it occur to anyone that, maybe just maybe, Elon is now giving a conservative estimate. Granted we have no way of knowing. But before you decide to get out the pitchforks and go visit Palo Alto. You might want to consider that they've heard the complaints about missing the dates they have given and are now giving ones they are sure they can hit.

I'm not upset about this because of the following reasons:

1) I presumed this was going to take a long time to be actually delivered. My estimate was Q4 2015 for auto steering right from the beginning. So I'm not sure the project is even late. It's hard to tell since other than vague statements like "several months" Tesla has never given a date.

2) As I pointed out in a lengthy post further up in this thread (that if you haven't ready it you should). Being upset isn't going to get me anything.

Tesla hasn't been perfect angels here. But I do think that to a large degree some owners have set themselves up to be disappointed by expecting something that was never really promised.

You can add the above to my list of reasons why I'm not annoyed. TACC by itself gave me 75% of what I cared about. Not steering is just gravy to me.

Just because you set your expectations low doesn't mean everyone else has or was inclined to or even had any indication that they should have. If you can find me any estimate from someone at Tesla or anywhere in any of their presentations or literature, even a vague one, that puts lane keeping release at Q4 2015 then that'd be something. Oh wait, everything since the announcement has been in present tense. Including the announcement itself! Why would Q4 2015 even come into play in that case? By the time I took delivery or at worst end of Q4 2014 was the impression when I placed the order, Q1 2015 soon after I confirmed the order, and Q1 2015 was the impression I got when I took delivery. No one thought for a second Q4 was even something to be associated with autopilot release throughout the entire order->delivery process.

TACC isn't autopilot. I've had it on other vehicles and it isn't anything spectacular. Honestly, it's something the Model S should have had at launch and is Tesla playing catch up.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,111
Phoenix, AZ
Tesla made its own bed here, and along with other areas fomenting customer disappointment, I'm less enthused about the company then I have been in some time. I don't think what they have done is fraud, but it's certainly not delivering a great customer experience.

^^ this... couldn't have said it better. My enthusiasm has dimmed with these recent events as well as what I heard in the financial call today. Lots of hedging and a defensive-sounding Musk. Something doesn't feel right.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, why does any of that have any bearing? Its like you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night... I don't care if you've bought 500 Teslas and single handedly kept the company alive during it's darkest days. You are owed nothing by Tesla, or anyone else for that matter, and you are so far in the wrong here you have no choice but to dig in and hold the line.

The above statement is the saddest statement I've seen come out of a TSLA investor. I hope you understand why, and I hope Tesla doesn't become the way you see the company.
 

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,786
12,616
Hickory, NC, USA
You have somewhat of a point. Bonnie could get her deposit back anytime she wants at the cost of losing her Signature vehicle.

On the other hand, she's put up $40k for a 2 year late vehicle. Even if you use the full cost of the Autopilot package $2,500 the difference in investment is significantly more.

So quite frankly, I think Model X people have just as much of a right to be annoyed as you do. But neither of you are going to get anything for being annoyed about the delay.

Yeah, I forgot it was $40k for a Sig X. Definitely grounds for significant annoyance, for sure. But still a black and white remedy to bail that the autopilot crowd doesn't have: cancel.

Honestly, if Tesla doesn't make this right one way or another, and soon, I will likely no longer be a Model S owner or a TSLA owner, on the principal of the situation. I'm not going to support a company that doesn't make good on promises and that's that.
 

Todd Burch

12-Year Member
Nov 3, 2009
8,322
35,131
Smithfield, VA
No one in Tesla will tell you what is the real problem in the delay of MX.

Elon just did. He said interior trim, for instance. If you're suggesting he's lying, that would be a pretty serious offense for a CEO of a public company to outright lie at a quarterly conference call.

I find it amazing that you can sit at your keyboard and type that a seat is not a big deal when you know nothing of its design, sourcing, or manufacturing.

Anyone who's been involved in designing and manufacturing real things gets it. Everyone else is just an armchair quarterback.
 

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,964
5,649
San Francisco
I haven't seen anyone else have this thought. But did it occur to anyone that, maybe just maybe, Elon is now giving a conservative estimate. Granted we have no way of knowing. But before you decide to get out the pitchforks and go visit Palo Alto. You might want to consider that they've heard the complaints about missing the dates they have given and are now giving ones they are sure they can hit.


I'm not upset about this because of the following reasons:


1) I presumed this was going to take a long time to be actually delivered. My estimate was Q4 2015 for auto steering right from the beginning. So I'm not sure the project is even late. It's hard to tell since other than vague statements like "several months" Tesla has never given a date.


2) As I pointed out in a lengthy post further up in this thread (that if you haven't ready it you should). Being upset isn't going to get me anything.


Tesla hasn't been perfect angels here. But I do think that to a large degree some owners have set themselves up to be disappointed by expecting something that was never really promised.

I have to agree with Ben on this one.

Even though I can personally hardly wait for auto-steer to be released, I've been in the software industry for over 15 years and absolutely understand all the challenges of releasing quality code. This one involves life and death, so it'd better be good when it's released to the public!

I also understand what it means to be an early adopter. When I ordered my P85D, which was delivered 8 months ago, I knew it was the "bleeding edge" and that it would take a while for Autopilot to be fully-implemented.

So yes, I have skin in the game, but I'm staying patient and optimistic that Tesla will make good on Autopilot software when they deem it's ready for prime-time. I suggest we all take a deep breath and enjoy our amazing cars! (those of us know have one, at least :rolleyes:)
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,111
Phoenix, AZ
I'd buy that if people who AGREED with being upset with delayed release of autopilot were also being told they had a credibility issue - but I just can't find one of those posts. Those are all +1'd, etc. So it appears that 'do you have skin in the game' is only asked of those who disagree.

THAT is a credibility issue. Yes?

I'm not part of the mob, I was just pointing out a possible answer to the person's question. I have no skin in this game - my car doesn't have Autopilot. But I certainly feel for those who bought into this feature based on what Musk and Tesla presented.
 

bonnie

I play a nice person on twitter.
Feb 6, 2011
16,429
9,934
Columbia River Gorge
I'd buy that if people who AGREED with being upset with delayed release of autopilot were also being told they had a credibility issue - but I just can't find one of those posts. Those are all +1'd, etc. So it appears that 'do you have skin in the game' is only asked of those who disagree.

THAT is a credibility issue. Yes?

That's not really fair, actually. There are no questions about skin in the game or credibility in most cases on either side since it's known one way or another the answer to that question already (previous posts... signatures with lists of Model S........)

Edit: On a side note, it's obvious that you disagree with the feelings expressed by myself and others on this issue... and, as is common among those who disagree, it's worth noting that you are not on our side of this particular fence either. (As in, you don't own a post-autopilot announcement Model S)

I've been personally trying to stay out of it, but failed this evening. It's just too much. What percentage of the posts in this thread are from you, personally? You clearly don't want dissenting opinion from people who aren't waiting for autopilot. And that pretty much answers all my questions. (Might note that this attitude is why self-moderation would never work...)

Good luck in your negotiations with Tesla. I suspect you'll get what you want short-term, if only to make you go away.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,615
3,217
Elon just did. He said interior trim, for instance. If you're suggesting he's lying, that would be a pretty serious offense for a CEO of a public company to outright lie at a quarterly conference call.

I find it amazing that you can sit at your keyboard and type that a seat is not a big deal when you know nothing of its design, sourcing, or manufacturing.

Anyone who's been involved in designing and manufacturing real things gets it. Everyone else is just an armchair quarterback.
Interesting phrasing. Armchair quarterbacking the design to production of a chair. ;)
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,111
Phoenix, AZ
When you are buying a Tesla, you are buying a Beta. Some parts of Beta are good (bleeding edge), and some are bad (sometimes features aren't done on time, or have major bugs).

I would agree with you if this were 2012, but it's 2015. I doubt customers who bought the car in the last 6 months to a year would agree with your statement about knowingly being beta testers. Tesla is no longer selling to early adopters. Tesla's current customer pool expects promises to be kept and features to be delivered on time. I don't remember the last time Apple missed a deadline.
 

bonnie

I play a nice person on twitter.
Feb 6, 2011
16,429
9,934
Columbia River Gorge
I'm not part of the mob, I was just pointing out a possible answer to the person's question. I have no skin in this game - my car doesn't have Autopilot. But I certainly feel for those who bought into this feature based on what Musk and Tesla presented.

Hah. And no one was dismissing your opinion, were they? :).

No worries. I am somewhat cranky over all the personal stuff in the thread about who has a right to opinions and who does not. It's clear that dissenting opinions are not welcomed by some.
 

breser

AutoPilot Nostradamus
Aug 28, 2014
2,314
94
North Bend, WA
Just because you set your expectations low doesn't mean everyone else has or was inclined to or even had any indication that they should have. If you can find me any estimate from someone at Tesla or anywhere in any of their presentations or literature, even a vague one, that puts lane keeping release at Q4 2015 then that'd be something.

You say low, I say realistic.

Oh wait, everything since the announcement has been in present tense. Including the announcement itself! Why would Q4 2015 even come into play in that case? By the time I took delivery or at worst end of Q4 2014 was the impression when I placed the order, Q1 2015 soon after I confirmed the order, and Q1 2015 was the impression I got when I took delivery. No one thought for a second Q4 was even something to be associated with autopilot release throughout the entire order->delivery process.

I think Tesla has been less than clear. But if you understood what they were saying Autopilot was always going to be something that was released over multiple software updates. I presumed the most difficult things would be released last. Given the rate of releases I figured nearly a year to get everything out. With my first car in 2 months I got a grand total of 1 software update, it took a month to get 6.1 (I think that's the right version number). In fact I vaguely recall people starting to get 6.1 shortly after I ordered and I didn't get it until a month after I got my car. Software releases have come faster but only with minor fixes that don't even provide release notes. Actually release note providing releases have been just as far and few between as I expected.

As someone working in the software industry I think you've let your hopes carry you away.

TACC isn't autopilot. I've had it on other vehicles and it isn't anything spectacular. Honestly, it's something the Model S should have had at launch and is Tesla playing catch up.

Well it's the first vehicle I've had it on. Ignoring the S85 I traded after two months I usually keep cars for 10 years or more. So both of those things color my thoughts on this.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,111
Phoenix, AZ
Anyone who's been involved in designing and manufacturing real things gets it. Everyone else is just an armchair quarterback.

The vast majority of customers are the latter. Are you suggesting that their opinions are not important because they don't "get it"? I ask this because it is the customers who will make or break this company, and they will do so based upon how they are treated by Tesla. So far it seems, 2015 has been off to a bad start judging by what I read here.
 

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