Autopilot late braking

[BoiseBruin]

So I just got my P85D from TMC memeber Alevek (which was a great transaction thanks to Al) and have loved almost everything about it.

The one thing that bugs me is how late the car starts braking when approaching a red light with stopped cars it starts the braking process way too late... especially on roads with a higher speed limit it actually scary.

I have read about people lowering the cruise control speed as they approach but in that case I might as well just take over...

I tried a few searches to see if there was other solutions or settings (my follow distance is at 7) to make it more user friendly.

Its almost to a point where I dont use AP because of this especially on over 45MPH roads..

 

[croman]

So I just got my P85D from TMC memeber Alevek (which was a great transaction thanks to Al) and have loved almost everything about it.

The one thing that bugs me is how late the car starts braking when approaching a red light with stopped cars it starts the braking process way too late... especially on roads with a higher speed limit it actually scary.

I have read about people lowering the cruise control speed as they approach but in that case I might as well just take over...

I tried a few searches to see if there was other solutions or settings (my follow distance is at 7) to make it more user friendly.

Its almost to a point where I dont use AP because of this especially on over 45MPH roads..

That's how AP works. Radar needs help from cameras which can't be that accurate above a certain speed.

If a car has been tracked at all it will stop fine. If a car even rolls forward it will be noticed by the radar but completely untracked stopped cars will be a safety issue.

Maybe this will improve slightly but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Depending on the spacing of the lights and timing you might only have 1 or 2 incidents. Stepping down and up the speed is only one way. You can disengage and let it Regen and reactivate after stopped. You can roll the dice and hope it does stop aka Russian Roulette Mode.

 

[evster]

That's how AP works. Radar needs help from cameras which can't be that accurate above a certain speed.

If a car has been tracked at all it will stop fine. If a car even rolls forward it will be noticed by the radar but completely untracked stopped cars will be a safety issue.

Maybe this will improve slightly but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Depending on the spacing of the lights and timing you might only have 1 or 2 incidents. Stepping down and up the speed is only one way. You can disengage and let it Regen and reactivate after stopped. You can roll the dice and hope it does stop aka Russian Roulette Mode.

This sounds promising for Full Self Driving on AP 2.X suite

 

[jjanov79]

I have the same issue and I typically manually disengage AP when coming up to stopped cars we’ll in advance to let regenerative braking do most of the work.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

You should always disengage TACC/AP when coming up to stopped cars. For TACC/AP the radar is the predominant sensor to calculate distance, and this doesn't work well with stopped cars. So I don't think you can reasonably expect it to be smooth. It's just a limitation of technology used.

It works fine if you're following someone who is stopping for the stopped car, but without that it's best to assume it's not going to do well. TACC/AP is more suited towards freeway driving and areas where you're not going to suddenly encounter stopped cars.

 

[dlsspy]

I've slammed on the brakes to stop just behind cars stopped at a light a few times. I could tell the car was detected and that it even hesitated a bit like it was going to slow down... then it just continued at speed until I was too uncomfortable to see what would happen.

Maybe it would stop, but this is not a fun experiment with actual cars.

 

[Daniellane]

I've slammed on the brakes to stop just behind cars stopped at a light a few times. I could tell the car was detected and that it even hesitated a bit like it was going to slow down... then it just continued at speed until I was too uncomfortable to see what would happen.

Maybe it would stop, but this is not a fun experiment with actual cars.

I call it “Russian Roulette Suicide Mode”

 

[BoiseBruin]

That’s a bit of a disappointment..

One of the main things was “safety”, in case I’m distracted the car would help me stop etc. if it can’t be counted on detecting a full size car just because it’s not moving seems absurd.

Oh well, it’s stopped for me every time but now my confidence is much lower.

Maybe they can improve this via software someday?

 

[alevek]

So I just got my P85D from TMC memeber Alevek (which was a great transaction thanks to Al) and have loved almost everything about it.

The one thing that bugs me is how late the car starts braking when approaching a red light with stopped cars it starts the braking process way too late... especially on roads with a higher speed limit it actually scary.

I have read about people lowering the cruise control speed as they approach but in that case I might as well just take over...

I tried a few searches to see if there was other solutions or settings (my follow distance is at 7) to make it more user friendly.

Its almost to a point where I dont use AP because of this especially on over 45MPH roads..

Hi, thanks for the compliment, and likewise it was a pleasure.

I agree with your assessment of autopilot. However, I found it enjoyable to use by making a mindset shift when using it. With AP on, I assumed the role of a System Manager and let the AP be the operator to carry out my system directive. As System Manager I would set the speed and lane targets for the AP to maintain and concentrated on the big picture. Assessing the conditions at this higher level results in a less stressful driving experience and makes the use of AP enjoyable. This means that even as System Manager one must remain continuously aware of changing conditions and make the appropriate request to the AP Operator. E.g. if a slowdown is detected far ahead, I would begin to lower the speed target until it reaches 35 mph. At this speed AP brings the car to a smooth stop and resume of speed.

Continue to enjoy the great car.
P.S. Don't forget to call Tesla and transfer the car to your account.

 

[bob_p]

The AP2 software braking needs improvement, braking earlier AND later than a human driver.

When running on TACC, a human driver observes brake lights on vehicles ahead and will tend to slow down more gradually than AP, which seems to wait a little longer before the Tesla Vision software determines the vehicle ahead is slowing enough to start applying the brake - and when it does, it often applies the brake relatively late, forcing a more abrupt stop.

The current AP2 software also has a tendency to brake for phantom events - such as when a vehicle ahead moves to an adjacent lane at an intersection and slows down waiting to turn - TACC will be too conservative and starts applying the brakes and slowing down, even though the lane ahead is clear.

And, there are still instances when AP2 detects a phantom object ahead - and decides to slow down. This seems to be triggered by a change in the color of the road surface ahead - Tesla Vision believing it may indicate there's an object ahead - when it's really just a color/shading change of the road bed.

At some point, Tesla Vision will improve to a level where the software will be able to operate the car more safely than a human.

We're not there yet - though hopefully getting closer in releases this year...

 

[BerTX]

Being disappointed is okay.

Being surprised earns an RTFM.

 

[BoiseBruin]

Hi, thanks for the compliment, and likewise it was a pleasure.

I agree with your assessment of autopilot. However, I found it enjoyable to use by making a mindset shift when using it. With AP on, I assumed the role of a System Manager and let the AP be the operator to carry out my system directive. As System Manager I would set the speed and lane targets for the AP to maintain and concentrated on the big picture. Assessing the conditions at this higher level results in a less stressful driving experience and makes the use of AP enjoyable. This means that even as System Manager one must remain continuously aware of changing conditions and make the appropriate request to the AP Operator. E.g. if a slowdown is detected far ahead, I would begin to lower the speed target until it reaches 35 mph. At this speed AP brings the car to a smooth stop and resume of speed.

Continue to enjoy the great car.
P.S. Don't forget to call Tesla and transfer the car to your account.

Thanks Al...

Still loving the car.. I'm sure that the fact I live in Boise where traffic is almost always light makes this problem even more pronounced... If I was back in Orange County i'm sure it would handle the stop and go traffic flawlessly!

 

[d21mike]

I use AP most of time even when it might be easier to just drive myself on local streets because of this. Anybody think when we get traffic red light detection things will improve? I.E. Will it be able to detect a RED Light sooner then a stationary car? BTW.. Driving the speed limit does help on local roads. 45 is usually the highest speed in my are but on a lot of streets it is 35 which work better because of more time to react. I find most cars are driving at least 5 mph over the speed limit and sometimes 10.

 

[chillaban]

I use AP most of time even when it might be easier to just drive myself on local streets because of this. Anybody think when we get traffic red light detection things will improve? I.E. Will it be able to detect a RED Light sooner then a stationary car? BTW.. Driving the speed limit does help on local roads. 45 is usually the highest speed in my are but on a lot of streets it is 35 which work better because of more time to react. I find most cars are driving at least 5 mph over the speed limit and sometimes 10.

I think it's more in order to deliver traffic light support in TACC (which indirectly means Tesla's encouraging more city use of TACC), they would have to make stopped car detection a lot more robust!

It simply comes across as something that they haven't focused a lot on, rather than a problem that cannot be solved without the crutches of mapped intersections or other heuristics. In the city a reliable ADAS simply must be able to detect and react to stopped cars, more so than on a highway.