Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Autopilot limitations

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Awaiting delivery of my new MY, but having some second thoughts. My main reason for purchase is ADAS safety features to avoid accidents. Very disconcerting are YT videos of a Tesla plowing into a car that turned in front of them with no Autopilot intervention. Then there is this statement by Tesla as a result of the much publicized DelRay Beach, FL fatal crash more than 2 years ago:
“NTSB says Tesla informed it that the Model 3's forward collision warning and automatic emergency braking systems were not designed to activate for crossing traffic or to prevent crashes at high speeds.
Tesla said the Autopilot vision system did not detect the truck as an object or threat as it crossed the path of the car.”
Maybe I should consider the Hyundai Ionic 5 that claims to have cross and oncoming traffic detection/avoidance? Appears to me that Tesla has no intention of “adding these capabilities to Autopilot or they would have by now. Perhaps FSD would solve this but $200/month is a lot for this retiree that only drives 4k miles/year.
To be clear, I REALLY want a Tesla, and at my age, I can’t wait forever, but I also need a car with the best ADAS I can afford.
Thoughts?
 
Well, Autopilot (AP) and safety features aren't necessarily one and the same. Some get the impression that you only get the safety features when using autopilot, and that they work 100% of the time. Neither of those things is true. AP likely will NOT stop you from crashing if you're not paying attention and a very strange situation arises. Ditto for the safety systems outside of AP when you're in manual control. But, if you're paying attention, whether on AP or not, then in my opinion the safety features work quite well - forward collision warnings, minor corrective steering, automatic emergency braking, etc. It's pretty good at alerting you of upcoming trouble and either giving you a little extra time to react, or starting to react ahead of you to make the outcome less severe (which I experienced once when a deer ran across the road in front of me - AP saw it before I did, and while I still hit him, we stayed on the road, no one was hurt, and even the deer got up and ran away). If anything, I'd say it's a little overzealous with the alerts...It's kind of annoying sometimes, but still appreciated.

BTW, AP can also make your drive quite relaxing on the highways, depending on conditions, and if you spring for Enhanced AP (I think that's what they call it now?) or FSD, automatic lane changes are wonderful.

Others will have different opinions, but that's my two cents :)
 
Well, Autopilot (AP) and safety features aren't necessarily one and the same. Some get the impression that you only get the safety features when using autopilot, and that they work 100% of the time. Neither of those things is true. AP likely will NOT stop you from crashing if you're not paying attention and a very strange situation arises. Ditto for the safety systems outside of AP when you're in manual control. But, if you're paying attention, whether on AP or not, then in my opinion the safety features work quite well - forward collision warnings, minor corrective steering, automatic emergency braking, etc. It's pretty good at alerting you of upcoming trouble and either giving you a little extra time to react, or starting to react ahead of you to make the outcome less severe (which I experienced once when a deer ran across the road in front of me - AP saw it before I did, and while I still hit him, we stayed on the road, no one was hurt, and even the deer got up and ran away). If anything, I'd say it's a little overzealous with the alerts...It's kind of annoying sometimes, but still appreciated.

BTW, AP can also make your drive quite relaxing on the highways, depending on conditions, and if you spring for Enhanced AP (I think that's what they call it now?) or FSD, automatic lane changes are wonderful.

Others will have different opinions, but that's my two cents :)
Thank you for your input. However, I am still confused. How did the Delray Beach and other similar fatalities happen if there were alerts (actually in at least one case, Tesla said there weren’t any)? Ditto with the videos on whambamteslacam YT channel, no alerts.
The complete lack of rear/front cross traffic alert (and lack of AEB) really concerns me. Maybe I am expecting too much from Tesla or any other car brand right now. At least Tesla has the ability to add these features to existing cars.
At least Tesla made a huge step forward in safety by displaying the repeater camera when a turn signal is activated.
 
The Autopilot accidents happened because the drivers weren’t paying attention. As long as you pay attention when you drive, with or without Autopilot, the Tesla’s safety systems should keep you safe. If the Tesla doesn’t have all the safety features you feel are necessary for you, you probably should have ordered something else, and it’s not too late to do that now, but it will cost you.

Note that Enhanced Autopilot is no longer available in the US.
 
In regards to safety features and AP in general, my sentiment is exactly the same as @VanFriscia. Autonomous Driving is such a new frontier in technology, it's not going to be truly ready and safe until maybe 10 years down the road, or even longer. I firmly believe that Tesla is at the forefront of this pioneering path, given the amount of test drivers and data they have. If Tesla's algorithms can't handle it, no one else can, certainly not Hyundai.

I've had my MY for about 8 months now and I love every aspect of it (except the Christmas Update like most people). Driving a Tesla is a pleasure - one-pedal driving, built-in cameras, highway AP, voice control, etc. The safety features work too well sometimes. But not gonna lie, their FSD is really years from a full release. It's jerky, unsafe, and confused in so many ways that I need to be twice as attentive as if I was driving. Some of the situations it fails in include
  • 4-way stops
  • Circles, especially two-lane ones
  • Left-turning lane with a line of cars. It doesn't know to switch as soon as possible.
  • It would've hit the guard rail in a double left-turning lane once if I didn't intervene.
But my motivation for testing FSD is kind like voting. If everyone takes part in this exercise we'll get there sooner, much sooner as a whole. But if that's not your motivation, then I would say a Tesla is not right for you, at least not right now. And maybe no car is at the moment. Regardless how great a carmaker touts its self-driving is, the real test is on the road, and no carmaker even has a thousandth of Tesla's road tests.
 
...Maybe I should consider the Hyundai Ionic 5 that claims to have cross and oncoming traffic detection/avoidance?...
Consumer Collision Avoidance feature is still very crude.

What you read about Hyundai is an ADAS that requires an attentive driver.

My speculation is that other ADAS don't get bad press because they have more robust driver monitoring systems which force drivers to be more attentive. So their Collision Avoidance System is actually the utilization of attentive drivers, not the Collision Avoidance technology itself.

It's true that Waymo does have an impressive Collision Avoidance but it's not for consumers and it's only allowed in its own 50 squared mile Chandler, AZ.

With the current FSD beta to a limited few, it's not that its Collision Avoidance technology is any better but its nanny system is much better: It would dis-enroll those who violate its nanny system twice for Model S/X and thrice for 3/Y.

Thus, back again to the consumer Collision Avoidance technology, there have been lots of talks but we won't know how good it is until it's in the hands of consumers.

For example, VinFast just sold its first EV in Vietnam on Christmas without even smart cruise control (the dumb cruise is there though) has already promised L2+ this mid-year, 2022.

MobilEye plans its consumer L4 by 2024/2025:

1641488873864.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: mangrove79
Probably just a matter of time before robust driver monitoring is increasingly implemented in all vehicles regardless of autonomy. Vehicles will roll off the assembly line with systems to detect and respond to distraction, intoxication, fatigue, medical emergencies, etc

Regulators will look at features like these ^^ and figure they can be implemented in a way that reduces traffic accidents long before we're realistically near giving the driving task to AI. And simpler driver monitoring and assist features like these reducing accidents per mile driven by humans will push out the goal posts being used for full autonomy as a factor of human-driver safety.
 
So the answer is yes? Autopilot is "traffic aware" without FSD and will stop at red lights and stop signs?

Would appreciate confirmation from existing Model 3 owners.
The article says this - "The feature is available for US cars with the Autopilot and Full Self-Driving packages manufactured after 2016. However, the system won’t work on every single stop light in the US, but Tesla says that the system should improve over time."

Currently, it seems the green light and stop light detection feature relies on FSD.
 
I believe the answer is yes, but I have FSD so I can’t confirm, someone else will have to. It can be confirmed with any Tesla model, not just a 3.

Why do you ask?
I am asking because I am awaiting delivery of a model 3 and want to know what to expect.

I see the red light and stop sign detection as a very important basic safety feature, and one which should be purchasable separately without paying 12K for FSD.

At the very least the car while in Autopilot should warn you if you are approaching a red light or stop sign too quickly. Basic life saving stuff.
 
I am asking because I am awaiting delivery of a model 3 and want to know what to expect.

I see the red light and stop sign detection as a very important basic safety feature, and one which should be purchasable separately without paying 12K for FSD.

At the very least the car while in Autopilot should warn you if you are approaching a red light or stop sign too quickly. Basic life saving stuff.
The traffic light and stop sign detection don’t do anything unless TACC or Autosteer are being used. You can’t use Autosteer on city streets unless you have the FSD Beta, so the traffic light detection won’t help you there. Even with FSD, there’s no warning if you’re driving manually and approach a red light or stop sign too quickly. If traffic light and stop sign control were only available with FSD, which I don’t think is the case, you can’t buy them separately.

Hopefully this will help set your expectations.
 
The traffic light and stop sign detection don’t do anything unless TACC or Autosteer are being used. You can’t use Autosteer on city streets unless you have the FSD Beta, so the traffic light detection won’t help you there. Even with FSD, there’s no warning if you’re driving manually and approach a red light or stop sign too quickly. If traffic light and stop sign control were only available with FSD, which I don’t think is the case, you can’t buy them separately.

Hopefully this will help set your expectations.
Thanks for the reply.

I wasn't aware you can't use Autosteer on city streets? I am in Australia, not sure if that makes a difference.

I thought I saw videos of others using Autosteer on city streets. Anyway things may be different with the 2022 model.

I'll keep my expectations low, but hoping for the best.
 
This thread is giving me a headache.

IIRC:
-You can use a feature called "Autosteer" on city streets, but it is unsupported there since it is designed for freeways.
-You can use a feature called "Autosteer on city streets" on city streets, it is in limited beta, hence designed for city streets but not "supported" since it is beta.

-If you have Autopilot or EAP but not FSD, the former does not recognize red lights. You don't have the latter.
-If you have Autopilot or EAP plus FSD, but not in the FSD beta, you can turn on red light visualization preview AND can also turn on stop at every light red or green preview unless you take action. You don't have the latter, YET.
-If you have Autopilot or EAP plus FSD, AND in the FSD beta AND turn on the FSD beta, you have the latter. It starts and stops at traffic signals. If you turn off the FSD beta, see the previous line.
This is in the U.S., not sure how it works elsewhere.

TL;DR "Autosteer" is a feature of Autopilot, "Autosteer on city streets" is a feature of FSD

"red light and stop sign detection as a very important basic safety feature" - if this is one of your base criteria for purchasing a new vehicle in 2022, how many car models do you have to choose from, exactly?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MThreeLR
I am asking because I am awaiting delivery of a model 3 and want to know what to expect.

I see the red light and stop sign detection as a very important basic safety feature, and one which should be purchasable separately without paying 12K for FSD.

At the very least the car while in Autopilot should warn you if you are approaching a red light or stop sign too quickly. Basic life saving stuff.

I’m not sure it does anything to protect the driver from running a red light. Can anyone confirm it does? I went through one to test it and it didn’t seem to care. But maybe it was one of the unsupported ones. Highway on-ramp meter light.
 
Thank you for your input. However, I am still confused. How did the Delray Beach and other similar fatalities happen if there were alerts (actually in at least one case, Tesla said there weren’t any)? Ditto with the videos on whambamteslacam YT channel, no alerts.
The complete lack of rear/front cross traffic alert (and lack of AEB) really concerns me. Maybe I am expecting too much from Tesla or any other car brand right now. At least Tesla has the ability to add these features to existing cars.
At least Tesla made a huge step forward in safety by displaying the repeater camera when a turn signal is activated.
Is this topic to discuss the 2019 accident to blame it on Tesla? I see at least two people here digging in this direction.

If the major feature of the car for you is the ability of the car to correct you running the red light, then my advice for you is to avoid driving and use Uber and public transportation.

If your questions are for real, then Tesla is the only car that makes serious OTA of major features. The traffic lights were not in Tesla vehicles until 2020. So, with Tesla, you may expect that the cross-traffic avoidance will improve over time even if it is not there yet. With most other cars, you have no chance for updates at all.
 
This thread is giving me a headache.

IIRC:
-You can use a feature called "Autosteer" on city streets, but it is unsupported there since it is designed for freeways.
-You can use a feature called "Autosteer on city streets" on city streets, it is in limited beta, hence designed for city streets but not "supported" since it is beta.

-If you have Autopilot or EAP but not FSD, the former does not recognize red lights. You don't have the latter.
-If you have Autopilot or EAP plus FSD, but not in the FSD beta, you can turn on red light visualization preview AND can also turn on stop at every light red or green preview unless you take action. You don't have the latter, YET.
-If you have Autopilot or EAP plus FSD, AND in the FSD beta AND turn on the FSD beta, you have the latter. It starts and stops at traffic signals. If you turn off the FSD beta, see the previous line.
This is in the U.S., not sure how it works elsewhere.

TL;DR "Autosteer" is a feature of Autopilot, "Autosteer on city streets" is a feature of FSD

"red light and stop sign detection as a very important basic safety feature" - if this is one of your base criteria for purchasing a new vehicle in 2022, how many car models do you have to choose from, exactly?
thanks for the explanation. I wasn't having much luck reaching a definitive conclusion on whether standard AP has this feature or not. Seems not.

Being able to detect a red light/stop sign is not one of my base requirements. I already ordered a model 3 months ago without FSD. I am a careful driver but having said that, it would definitely add to my peace of mind if the car did keep a look out for red lights and stop signs. To err is human.