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Autopilot nag

alfagiulia

Member
Sep 22, 2016
35
20
Germany
Stay attentive and keep hands on the wheel... kinda sounds like driving. Or driving with cruise control.

I like active safety features like ABS, ESC, and automatic braking. But "autopilot" while still required to maintain full attention doesn't make much sense to me. You're either driving, or you're not. Too many people get stuck somewhere in between. When we reach level 3 and attention is not required for stretches, then it starts to have some legitimate utility.

I wish Tesla had stuck to revolutionizing the transportation industry through electrification and not wasted so much time and money in "self driving" development. The model 3 might have been even more affordable and fun to drive. Tesla should focus on battery tech and manufacturing and let the others figure out computer vision. Tesla can't do everything. Autopilot is not what made Tesla unique in the first place. There are so many other companies working on vision without the extra baggage.
 

SSonnentag

Rocket Scientist
Apr 11, 2017
1,743
2,192
Arizona
There is a lot to be said for being in control of both hardware and software. It works for Apple too. While they may not always be on the cutting edge of technology, the resulting package is far superior in many customers' opinions.
 
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chronopc

Active Member
Jul 8, 2017
2,873
2,722
California
Stay attentive and keep hands on the wheel... kinda sounds like driving. Or driving with cruise control.

I like active safety features like ABS, ESC, and automatic braking. But "autopilot" while still required to maintain full attention doesn't make much sense to me. You're either driving, or you're not. Too many people get stuck somewhere in between. When we reach level 3 and attention is not required for stretches, then it starts to have some legitimate utility.

I wish Tesla had stuck to revolutionizing the transportation industry through electrification and not wasted so much time and money in "self driving" development. The model 3 might have been even more affordable and fun to drive. Tesla should focus on battery tech and manufacturing and let the others figure out computer vision. Tesla can't do everything. Autopilot is not what made Tesla unique in the first place. There are so many other companies working on vision without the extra baggage.
EAP is actually one of the main reason why my girlfriend and I wanted the car. I do agree with you that the "keep your hands on the steering wheel" warning is too sensitive and too frequent. There were occasions where my hands were on the steering wheels but the car didn't register it so I had to do some slight jerks of the wheel. I hope they are able to fix this with a software update.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
12,773
18,829
NC
EAP is actually one of the main reason why my girlfriend and I wanted the car.


Yup. If AP wasn't offered on the car I'd probably just keep driving my current car until someone else offered something at least as good-current car is pretty similar performance, and a nicer interior, to the FP Model 3- yes it costs gas but it's paid for so it'd be decades before I made the new car cost up using electric instead.

But I have a 35 mile drive each way to/from work, 95% highway, often with traffic- basically the optimal case for AP use making my life a lot nicer (and safer).
 
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ewoodrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2018
5,285
3,735
Buford, GA
Stay attentive and keep hands on the wheel... kinda sounds like driving. Or driving with cruise control.

I like active safety features like ABS, ESC, and automatic braking. But "autopilot" while still required to maintain full attention doesn't make much sense to me. You're either driving, or you're not. .

First, you don't have to use it, you don't have to buy it, you can drive without it. So if you don't like it, that's fine.
So, I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

Now, if you are referring to the current generation of assisted driving, it is not a full level 5 autonomous system. It is not capable of driving without user guidance and intervention. There are many times in which the system needs human intervention and therefore requires that the driver be attentive at all times. It's not as if the car can immediately stop, ask the driver to take over and continue.

"Other companies without the baggage"? Yep, nope, they all have the baggage. Almost all of the implementations of level 5 autonomous driving have a driver in the car to take over. And a few of these have gotten into some big issues when the driver wasn't paying attention and deaths occurred. My 2018 Leaf with ProPilot Assist does the EXACT same thing as the Tesla, it has adaptive cruise control and lane guidance. And the Leaf use the EXACT same pressure on the steering wheel to help assure that the driver is attentive.

"Driving or Not"? It doesn't seem as if you have used the features much. The adaptive cruise control is awesome. In rush hour stop and go traffic, this alone drops the "chill factor" by at least 20 points. It is a lot less stressful than having to concentrate on vehicle distance.
Keeping between the lanes is also nice, but does indeed lend a little credence to "Driving or not". I'd equate this to classic cruise control. People were upset when this came out, "It would cause accidents" but soon became accustomed to the idea. So keeping between the lines is like the old cruise control. You still have to be ready to put that foot on the brake or accelerator at any time.
 

alfagiulia

Member
Sep 22, 2016
35
20
Germany
ewood, I don't think you read what I wrote.

My point is that if you drive the current AP as it is intended with full attention and hands on the wheel, then it is basically equivalent to conventional cruise control. Of course almost nobody actually maintains alertness like they are supposed to.

There are dozens of companies working on computer vision, including some really big names. In the next few years some of these companies will probably directly or indirectly bring cars to market that have level 3 capabilities. Some of these companies may develop better hardware and software than Tesla because they focus exclusively on computer vision and they have more talented developers. If/when that happens it sounds like most of the people posting in this thread will be buying a car that is not a Tesla.

I like Tesla's because they are really fun to drive and they are electric. Extra points for constantly innovating. I like driving. I don't like riding in a bus. And I don't like touch screens.
 

chronopc

Active Member
Jul 8, 2017
2,873
2,722
California
But EAP is not what distinguishes a Tesla from every other car on the market.
You are correct. There are a number of things that distinguishes Tesla. But for what I wanted, an EV with over 200 miles of range. Only Tesla offers a technology like EAP.

I can't speak for competing software, but EAP is much more than just an advance cruise control. I took my car on a 200 miles road trip this weekend and there were long stretches where I did basically nothing (besides holding the steering wheel). I was on the freeway going upwards of 75mph and the car was handling the curves and managing the speed perfectly.
 

Austindude

Member
Sep 26, 2017
317
402
Austin, TX
Stay attentive and keep hands on the wheel... kinda sounds like driving. Or driving with cruise control.

I like active safety features like ABS, ESC, and automatic braking. But "autopilot" while still required to maintain full attention doesn't make much sense to me. You're either driving, or you're not. Too many people get stuck somewhere in between. When we reach level 3 and attention is not required for stretches, then it starts to have some legitimate utility.

I wish Tesla had stuck to revolutionizing the transportation industry through electrification and not wasted so much time and money in "self driving" development. The model 3 might have been even more affordable and fun to drive. Tesla should focus on battery tech and manufacturing and let the others figure out computer vision. Tesla can't do everything. Autopilot is not what made Tesla unique in the first place. There are so many other companies working on vision without the extra baggage.
As ewoodrick previously stated, if you don't think EAP on a Tesla (or any other car that offers a similar feature) is worth the money why did you purchase it? Or maybe you didn't buy EAP and you don't actually have it on your Tesla(s)? If you did buy EAP did you also pay for full self driving knowing it is not yet available?
Over the years there have been many videos on YouTube addressing what Tesla vehicles equipped with AP1/AP2 are and aren't capable of, have you checked them out? I know I spent a fair amount of time watching these videos to see what I was going to be getting before I paid my $$ (In fairness I also had AP1 on my model S). You don't like it, fine, but there are many of us that think EAP even with its limitations is a worthwhile feature and this is why we paid for it. Can it improve, you bet, and I certainly hope it does and Tesla has a means to make that happen. I remain confident that I will be getting updates for EAP in the future and I look forward to the accompanying improvements that will come with those updates. While I have no idea how many of the other vehicles (EV or ICE) that offer this feature can be improved with over the air updates I do know Tesla's can be updated and will be updated. Anyway, as alluded to by others on this thread, surely you didn't purchase a Tesla just because it offers EAP, did you?
I'm guessing there are probably hundreds of thousands of reservation holders out there waiting to buy their Model 3 without the EAP feature as well as an equal number that will gladly pay for it. Enjoy your car, use traffic aware, and please don't use EAP if you are not willing to stay alert and keep your hands on the wheel. Be safe, be happy.
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
12,773
18,829
NC
But EAP is not what distinguishes a Tesla from every other car on the market.

Not the ONLY thing certainly- but one I cared about.

I've driven a Tesla with EAP, and I've driven the current-year version of my current car with that makers version of adaptive cruise.

The Tesla version is vastly better.

It's possible somebody has a system as good as Teslas, but I'm not aware of it- doubly so that they'd have it in a car I'd otherwise want to buy (reasonable performance and handling, etc).
 
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jp3pac

Member
Sep 7, 2017
12
22
portland
I don't think Tesla is in this to help drivers. They're in this to replace drivers. They see a future where cars are commodities: driverless cars will come and drive you where ever you want. Although there is competition in the space, Tesla is the only one that is starting to put a hardware enabled fleet out on the street. It will be very profitable. This may seem like science fiction, but the future is taking less time to become the present.
 

SlicedBr3ad

Member
Feb 25, 2017
922
828
Fl
I got tesla precisely for autopilot. There are other autopilot like cars but tesla is much better at this than the rest. Also, they're just getting started. Based on various article, now that neural networks rewrite happened, they're going to make functionality even more useful. Every time I use autopilot, it's a pleasure and relieves stress. Can't wait for additional features for EAP and fsd.
 
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alfagiulia

Member
Sep 22, 2016
35
20
Germany
Not the ONLY thing certainly- but one I cared about.

I've driven a Tesla with EAP, and I've driven the current-year version of my current car with that makers version of adaptive cruise.

The Tesla version is vastly better.

It's possible somebody has a system as good as Teslas, but I'm not aware of it- doubly so that they'd have it in a car I'd otherwise want to buy (reasonable performance and handling, etc).
BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Mercedes, and Volvo definitely have something similar. There are probably others that I'm forgetting. And in another year or two the list will double or triple. Tesla did not revolutionize car autopilot. It revolutionized battery powered vehicles. Tesla ≠ AutoPilot. Tesla is not an iPhone. The car aspect of Tesla is way cooler than the computer aspect.
 

alfagiulia

Member
Sep 22, 2016
35
20
Germany
I took my car on a 200 miles road trip this weekend and there were long stretches where I did basically nothing (besides holding the steering wheel). I was on the freeway going upwards of 75mph and the car was handling the curves and managing the speed perfectly.

But if you have to pay attention the whole time, how is that so different than cruise control? It's not like steering takes much effort.
I'm starting to think people are really addicted to a gimmick. A cool new thing that they can show off. If you can take a nap while your car drives you home from work, then sure, I get it... that's pretty cool. But we're clearly not there yet.
 

alfagiulia

Member
Sep 22, 2016
35
20
Germany
As ewoodrick previously stated, if you don't think EAP on a Tesla (or any other car that offers a similar feature) is worth the money why did you purchase it? Or maybe you didn't buy EAP and you don't actually have it on your Tesla(s)? If you did buy EAP did you also pay for full self driving knowing it is not yet available?
Over the years there have been many videos on YouTube addressing what Tesla vehicles equipped with AP1/AP2 are and aren't capable of, have you checked them out? I know I spent a fair amount of time watching these videos to see what I was going to be getting before I paid my $$ (In fairness I also had AP1 on my model S). You don't like it, fine, but there are many of us that think EAP even with its limitations is a worthwhile feature and this is why we paid for it. Can it improve, you bet, and I certainly hope it does and Tesla has a means to make that happen. I remain confident that I will be getting updates for EAP in the future and I look forward to the accompanying improvements that will come with those updates. While I have no idea how many of the other vehicles (EV or ICE) that offer this feature can be improved with over the air updates I do know Tesla's can be updated and will be updated. Anyway, as alluded to by others on this thread, surely you didn't purchase a Tesla just because it offers EAP, did you?
I'm guessing there are probably hundreds of thousands of reservation holders out there waiting to buy their Model 3 without the EAP feature as well as an equal number that will gladly pay for it. Enjoy your car, use traffic aware, and please don't use EAP if you are not willing to stay alert and keep your hands on the wheel. Be safe, be happy.
I really love Tesla: what they stand for and what they have achieved. I want Tesla to continue to push the limits of sustainability and fun. And I worry that if other automakers achieve self-driving features on par with or better than Tesla, that they will abandon Tesla. I see so many Tesla owners who seem obsessed with a mediocre level 2 capability, and it really worries me.

Tesla has a significant lead in battery chemistry and technology. They also have a nice synergy with solar power. But in terms of self-driving capabilities, their lead (if it is a lead at all), is slim. Others will catch and surpass them. If they focus on what they are good at they can be a major factor in all sectors of personal and commercial transportation. But if they squander their resources chasing full autonomy, they might not survive. Breaking into the auto industry on a mass production scale is unheard of. Surviving that transition while simultaneously trying to revolutionize a separate and extremely competitive field might be too much to ask.
 

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