Autopilot needs manual lane change without disengage

[TesslaBull]

So, considering that Mercede's driver assist tech allows for manual lane change without disengaging, I would like to see Tesla add this functionality into AP.

Basically, I feel like AP is *too* limited since, unless you never pass anyone, it must be disengaged too often, and in a very non user friendly way.

Here are my specific gripes. AP is engaged, but I approach slower traffic and want to pass. I have to really yank the wheel to disengage which makes for a jerky, non-smooth drive. In addition, I lose cruise control so now must also manually maintain speed. If it is going to take some time to pass a slower moving clump of traffic, now I have to re-engage AP. Then, once passing is complete, I have to yank the wheel, jerk around, lose cruise control, change lanes, then reengage AP. This is way too clunky and not user friendly at all.

I'm not saying the car should self drive lane changes and such....this is a feature of EAP that Tesla understandably wants to be paid for. However, it would be nice if, after using turn signal, AP would allow for manual lane change without losing CC, and automatically resume control once the lane change is made. After passing, the driver could again manually change lanes, retain cruise control, and AP re-engage after lane change. This is pretty basic capability that many other companies are offering at a much lower cost than Tesla's EAP.

Maybe Tesla considers this too close to EAP and doesn't want to hurt revenue, but IMO, AP is far too basic and limited, and EAP is far too expensive let alone FSD.

For comparison sake, Mercedes' driver assist program does allow this capability and only costs $2k. AND, AFAIK, it will also auto lane change on its own with no driver assist just as EAP does(doesn't it??).

I don't think this capability would eat too heavily into EAP or FSD sales....there are lots of folks like me who will never dream of spending $6k for EAP. I would pay $500 for a software update that would allow the above capability to change lanes manually. Heck, I'd probably pay $1,000.

Pre-emptively, please spare the "just buy EAP or FSD" comments. It's not worth 6k when others are giving this functionality for far less.

 

[enemji]

It disengages if you hold on the turn signal to change lanes. Surely you don’t want to be unlawful and change lanes without signaling.

 

[TesslaBull]

It disengages if you hold on the turn signal to change lanes. Surely you don’t want to be unlawful and change lanes without signaling.

AH, I've been using the easy turn signal push to change lanes, and still have to aggressively manually disengage with tons of steering wheel force. If I fully click on the turn signal, it will disengage AP?

If this is the case, it still would be nice if the system would allow for a brief period of manual control to change lanes without disengaging. Does this method also disengage basic cruise control as well?

 

[mspohr]

The old version of AP allowed automatic lane changes without disengaging AP.
All you had to do was hold the turn signal and it would change lanes (monitoring the neighboring lane to make sure it was clear).
They removed this functionality. I really miss it.

 

[enemji]

AH, I've been using the easy turn signal push to change lanes, and still have to aggressively manually disengage with tons of steering wheel force. If I fully click on the turn signal, it will disengage AP?

If this is the case, it still would be nice if the system would allow for a brief period of manual control to change lanes without disengaging. Does this method also disengage basic cruise control as well?

I hold my turn signal stalk halfway, not push it down all the way. It works as intended for lane change

 

[E90alex]

It disengages if you hold on the turn signal to change lanes. Surely you don’t want to be unlawful and change lanes without signaling.

You still have to re-engage it after

 

[UncleCreepy]

In addition, I lose cruise control so now must also manually maintain speed.

Did they change that at some point? My M3 does not cancel ACC when I forcefully disable AP without using the turn signal. Might be one of the "improvements" that came after 2022.20.8.

 

[enemji]

You still have to re-engage it after

Only for lane keeping. The TACC speed is maintained

 

[E90alex]

Only for lane keeping. The TACC speed is maintained

Yes but it’s still super annoying and not how any other automakers system works.

 

[TesslaBull]

Tesla has amazing levels of "wow, that's such an easy way of doing things, why doesn't everyone?", that the clunkiness of AP just really stands out to me.

For example, I drove my wife's Kia Niro EV yesterday. It was annoying that I had to press a button to 'start' the car. It was annoying that the car started yelling at me when I walked away because I had left the physical key in the car. It was annoying that I had to manually lock and unlock the doors as I approached/left. My Tesla removes all these minor inconveniences. Why don't all cars tether to my phone? Whey do I have to manually press a button to start the car? Manually lock/unlock the doors? Why don't all cars have flawless, user friendly voice activated navigation built in?

 

[TesslaBull]

I'll have to do some more highway driving to make sure I'm not imagining things. Maybe I was forgetting to put my turn signal on? Could swear that AP would not disengage when putting on the turn signal and that I had to force disengage with the steering wheel. Thought I was losing CC, etc. I'll check again and report back to see if I'm mistaken.

 

[E90alex]

Tesla has amazing levels of "wow, that's such an easy way of doing things, why doesn't everyone?", that the clunkiness of AP just really stands out to me.

For example, I drove my wife's Kia Niro EV yesterday. It was annoying that I had to press a button to 'start' the car. It was annoying that the car started yelling at me when I walked away because I had left the physical key in the car. It was annoying that I had to manually lock and unlock the doors as I approached/left. My Tesla removes all these minor inconveniences. Why don't all cars tether to my phone? Whey do I have to manually press a button to start the car? Manually lock/unlock the doors? Why don't all cars have flawless, user friendly voice activated navigation built in?

I find lack of start button and exterior door lock controls more annoying than helpful and Bluetooth based phone key less secure and less reliable.

I don’t want the car to start the radio and HVAC everytime I open a door. There are also times when I want to get out of the car and close the door but have the car remain on.

I don’t trust the phone key to auto lock on walk away and I would prefer to press a button to lock the doors so I can confirm before leaving. Sometimes you have to get 50+ feet away from the car before it locks, leaving opportunity for someone to sneak up and access your car before it locks.

The Bluetooth based phone key also cannot tell if the key is inside or outside the vehicle, only that it’s in “close enough” proximity to the car. You can be standing 5 feet away from the vehicle and someone can open the door and drive off.

 

[Dewg]

You can please some of the people some of the time...

 

[EVRider-FL]

I'll have to do some more highway driving to make sure I'm not imagining things. Maybe I was forgetting to put my turn signal on? Could swear that AP would not disengage when putting on the turn signal and that I had to force disengage with the steering wheel. Thought I was losing CC, etc. I'll check again and report back to see if I'm mistaken.

With basic AP, Autosteer doesn't disengage until you actually turn the wheel to change lanes, not when you signal. TACC doesn't disengage, just Autosteer.

The old version of AP allowed automatic lane changes without disengaging AP.
All you had to do was hold the turn signal and it would change lanes (monitoring the neighboring lane to make sure it was clear).
They removed this functionality. I really miss it.

They didn't remove Auto Lane Change, which is what you're describing. Yes, it was included with the old AP1 Autopilot, but then it became part of EAP when AP2 came out. The basic AP we have today, the one without Auto Lane Change, wasn't introduced until 2019.

 

[clydeiii]

You don’t need to “yank” the wheel to disengage. You can simply apply a slight bit more torque than it applies to itself and it will gracefully disengage. Try that!

 

[mspohr]

With basic AP, Autosteer doesn't disengage until you actually turn the wheel to change lanes, not when you signal. TACC doesn't disengage, just Autosteer.


They didn't remove Auto Lane Change, which is what you're describing. Yes, it was included with the old AP1 Autopilot, but then it became part of EAP when AP2 came out. The basic AP we have today, the one without Auto Lane Change, wasn't introduced until 2019.

Well, that's not the way my AP works. (2022 Model S)
Autosteer disengages when I signal a lane change.

They removed auto lane change from AP. I had AP on my first Model S (2015) and it had auto lane change. Loved it.
My new Model S AP doesn't have auto lane change. I would have to buy EAP to get auto lane change but I'm finding that even AP in my 2022 is worse than my old 2015 AP so I'm not inclined to buy it now. (It seems to have lots of problems with curves, phantom braking, etc. so I don't use it much.)
Perhaps when they get FSD working and update AP and EAP with improved FSD "visual" code it might get better... maybe not.

 

[TesslaBull]

You don’t need to “yank” the wheel to disengage. You can simply apply a slight bit more torque than it applies to itself and it will gracefully disengage. Try that!

I'll have to try it some more, but the problem seems to be that as I attempt to change lanes, the car kind of pushes back a bit.....when it finally disengages while I have pressure applied attempting to change lanes, the car darts a bit....its pretty jerky. Even if this were to happen more smoothly, I still think Tesla should allow manual lane changes with AP after signaling. This way, the system won't fight to keep lane control, allow a smooth lane change, and re-engage lane control once centered. Maybe they see this as too close to EAP but I still think there are many owners who won't pay for EAP or FSD, but would pay a smaller fee for this functionality. Otherwise, Tesla's AP will be one of the least capable driver assist programs, behind Ford, GM, Mercedes, etc.

 

[TesslaBull]

Well, that's not the way my AP works. (2022 Model S)
Autosteer disengages when I signal a lane change.

They removed auto lane change from AP. I had AP on my first Model S (2015) and it had auto lane change. Loved it.
My new Model S AP doesn't have auto lane change. I would have to buy EAP to get auto lane change but I'm finding that even AP in my 2022 is worse than my old 2015 AP so I'm not inclined to buy it now. (It seems to have lots of problems with curves, phantom braking, etc. so I don't use it much.)
Perhaps when they get FSD working and update AP and EAP with improved FSD "visual" code it might get better... maybe not.

M3 and MS perhaps function differently with AP? I wouldn't think so but???

 

[enemji]

I'll have to try it some more, but the problem seems to be that as I attempt to change lanes, the car kind of pushes back a bit.....when it finally disengages while I have pressure applied attempting to change lanes, the car darts a bit....its pretty jerky. Even if this were to happen more smoothly, I still think Tesla should allow manual lane changes with AP after signaling. This way, the system won't fight to keep lane control, allow a smooth lane change, and re-engage lane control once centered. Maybe they see this as too close to EAP but I still think there are many owners who won't pay for EAP or FSD, but would pay a smaller fee for this functionality. Otherwise, Tesla's AP will be one of the least capable driver assist programs, behind Ford, GM, Mercedes, etc.

How would it know if you are not drifting away or you want to change lanes? You need to tell the car. How do you do that? Use the turn signal stalk.

sorry if you don't like it. I hope Elon does not change that design based upon such reviews.

 

[E90alex]

How would it know if you are not drifting away or you want to change lanes? You need to tell the car. How do you do that? Use the turn signal stalk.

sorry if you don't like it. I hope Elon does not change that design based upon such reviews.

Have you ever driven any other car with lane centering? The way it behaves with basic autopilot is asinine.

Yes, holding the turn signal will disable autosteer but why would you have to hold it? That’s not intuitive. Why else would you use the turn signal if you didn’t intend to change lanes? Plus it doesn’t re-engage itself after the lane change.

In every other vehicle with lane centering, turning on the turn signal automatically pauses lane centering. No holding the stalk necessary. No bing-bong or other warning sounds (unless someone in your blind spot). You change lanes like normal without fighting the steering wheel. After you finishing changing lanes and cancel the turn signal (or it auto cancels after triple blink) the lane centering automatically resumes. No need to manually turn it back on. No bong-bing sounds. Very natural and expected behavior.