-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
AutoPilot speed restrictions...what do you think
- Thread starter boonedocks
- Start date
What I find seriously problematic is that this isn't mentioned in the release notes.
So that brings up the obvious question as to why. Why make a significant change to AP behavior without documenting it in the release notes? The following article says "According to a source familiar with the update, the system is also taking into account the vehicle’s surroundings"
Tesla’s new Autopilot speed restrictions are not only about speed limits but also about the driving environment
So we're relying on sources to tell us a reason that our car might suddenly slow down? If my car might slow down by itself in specific situations you better damn well tell me in the release notes when the change happens so that I'm aware of it. It could very well make the difference between me using it, and not using it. Not giving me the information is not consensual.
As it is it's bad enough trying to figure out what caused the car to do something. There is no past notifications window to see what may have popped up when I was distracted by actually driving the car, and not looking at the IC.
I don't even have a problem with them limiting/changing AP. I'm of the strong belief that AP is something we can't own even though we paid for it. Sure I get that AP 1.0 is really just a driver assistance package, but unfortunately we lost that battle due to media sensationalism. So I don't really want to argue about that. I simply accepted that it doesn't really matter anymore.
I'm also bothered by the lack of justification. At least with the added limitations with 8.0 there was media and regulatory pressure. There was an overall owners acceptance that Tesla was between a rock and hard place.
With this latest limitation I simply don't see any pressure or any reason for. I seriously thought AP 1.0 would pretty much fall into maintenance mode, and it would barely be touched. Instead it's become like an eraser erasing when no one is looking. A little code here, and a little code here makes it disappear.
I hope Green1 doesn't drive his car. It's going to be a museum piece with the V7 firmware.
So that brings up the obvious question as to why. Why make a significant change to AP behavior without documenting it in the release notes? The following article says "According to a source familiar with the update, the system is also taking into account the vehicle’s surroundings"
Tesla’s new Autopilot speed restrictions are not only about speed limits but also about the driving environment
So we're relying on sources to tell us a reason that our car might suddenly slow down? If my car might slow down by itself in specific situations you better damn well tell me in the release notes when the change happens so that I'm aware of it. It could very well make the difference between me using it, and not using it. Not giving me the information is not consensual.
As it is it's bad enough trying to figure out what caused the car to do something. There is no past notifications window to see what may have popped up when I was distracted by actually driving the car, and not looking at the IC.
I don't even have a problem with them limiting/changing AP. I'm of the strong belief that AP is something we can't own even though we paid for it. Sure I get that AP 1.0 is really just a driver assistance package, but unfortunately we lost that battle due to media sensationalism. So I don't really want to argue about that. I simply accepted that it doesn't really matter anymore.
I'm also bothered by the lack of justification. At least with the added limitations with 8.0 there was media and regulatory pressure. There was an overall owners acceptance that Tesla was between a rock and hard place.
With this latest limitation I simply don't see any pressure or any reason for. I seriously thought AP 1.0 would pretty much fall into maintenance mode, and it would barely be touched. Instead it's become like an eraser erasing when no one is looking. A little code here, and a little code here makes it disappear.
I hope Green1 doesn't drive his car. It's going to be a museum piece with the V7 firmware.
Tesla's attorneys must be damned stupid. Do they think their liability is reduced by these constant changes to the operating patterns of the vehicle? If anything, it's increased, at least for the short term. Especially considering changes to the way the vehicle operates on the road aren't even mentioned in the release notes. Great - they've enhanced the equalizer. BUT THEY DON'T TELL US THAT THE WAY THE VEHICLES OPERATES ITSELF ON THE ROAD HAS CHANGED????
Imagine - driver hits another vehicle on the road, and at trial tells the judge "I was distracted because my car was behaving oddly. I had a bunch of warning messages on the instrument panel and was trying to figure them out. They were never there before." Tesla certainly has some liability there for secretly making such changes. Lots more room for civil action against Tesla in that event, too.
Now when driving in autopilot on most highways, I have to keep my foot on the gas pedal (forgive me) in order not to be a hazard to other drivers by moving so slowly. Those constant warning messages about autopilot limited and cruise won't slow down automatically will only serve to desensitize many operators to message that appear there, and more important ones will be ignored. Again, increased room for civil action against Tesla.
These changes to AP functionality, plus leaving them out of the release notes, are real bone-headed moves, Tesla.
Imagine - driver hits another vehicle on the road, and at trial tells the judge "I was distracted because my car was behaving oddly. I had a bunch of warning messages on the instrument panel and was trying to figure them out. They were never there before." Tesla certainly has some liability there for secretly making such changes. Lots more room for civil action against Tesla in that event, too.
Now when driving in autopilot on most highways, I have to keep my foot on the gas pedal (forgive me) in order not to be a hazard to other drivers by moving so slowly. Those constant warning messages about autopilot limited and cruise won't slow down automatically will only serve to desensitize many operators to message that appear there, and more important ones will be ignored. Again, increased room for civil action against Tesla.
These changes to AP functionality, plus leaving them out of the release notes, are real bone-headed moves, Tesla.
Last edited:
doctorwho
Active Member
If the car is behaving in a way that isn't described in the manual then I'd suggest that every affected owner contact Tesla with a bug report
Alex D
Member
98% of my driving is done within city limits, I rarely have to use highways. In my situation AP just became pretty much useless.
On the upside, this will save me $8,000 on the next car. No point for me to get AP anymore. I'm not going to shell out 8K for the once or twice a year occasional road trip.
On the upside, this will save me $8,000 on the next car. No point for me to get AP anymore. I'm not going to shell out 8K for the once or twice a year occasional road trip.
There are clearly a number of owners here who are very upset with this change which only applies to non-divided roads and is only a 5mph change.
I am surprised that people get so upset about such a small change on roads that in fact AP is not recommended for. Currently AP is designed for divided roads without cross traffic. Over time it will become more capable and be able to handle undivided roads more safely. I suspect that at that time it will be changed to allow use at something over the posted speed limit.
For now, this small change is about safety and walking the fine line between satisfying regulatory agencies and enabling AP use on a wider range of road types.
And yes I know my S does not have AP but I have spent hours driving an AP-enabled Model S so I have some experience with it.
I think it depends on your situation, ecarfan. In my case I live in Canada and almost all of our highways are undivided. The one I take every day is flat and straight and just one lane in each direction. Driving the speed limit during rush hour means I will have people mad at me and taking risks to pass me with oncoming traffic. In my opinion that is MUCH more dangerous than just keeping up with traffic. To avoid that risk I can't realistically use AP any more, even though it is otherwise quite safe to do so.
Rob
Rob
I can appreciate that, but again I would point out that at this time AP is not recommended for use on undivided roads. So to me it does not seem like an unreasonable thing for Tesla to do to limit AP to the speed limit on undivided roads until AP gets much more capable.
If Tesla's intent is to essentially disable autopilot on undivided roads, that will make it much less appealing to potential buyers.
It's also the case that 'what autopilot does' and how it works was shown to most of us through example. My test drive included the salesman directing me to engage it on an undivided road. My extended test drive confirmed that it would work on my undivided commute. Tesla might have some fine print to win a legal argument allowing them to reduce the system usefulness. But that won't mean sh*t in the marketplace.
It was just announced that Tesla retained the title of car most people would buy again from CR...albeit falling from 97% to 91%. You can kiss that score goodbye with this change. I couldn't honestly recommend the car to a friend based on this change and totally unpredictable future degrades.
It's also the case that 'what autopilot does' and how it works was shown to most of us through example. My test drive included the salesman directing me to engage it on an undivided road. My extended test drive confirmed that it would work on my undivided commute. Tesla might have some fine print to win a legal argument allowing them to reduce the system usefulness. But that won't mean sh*t in the marketplace.
It was just announced that Tesla retained the title of car most people would buy again from CR...albeit falling from 97% to 91%. You can kiss that score goodbye with this change. I couldn't honestly recommend the car to a friend based on this change and totally unpredictable future degrades.
DrivingRockies
Closed
Elon did say it will be back again assuming there is a lead car. That makes it slightly better, but still not what it was/should be.
Alex D
Member
I wouldn't go as far as I wouldn't buy a Tesla again, but I definitely won't spend any money on AP anymore, no point.
Sorry, but I'm not really interested in my car's capability being tied to Leon's twitter account.
This is really simple:
1) Figure out what you can do (in reality land, we call this development)
2). Market and sell thing from #1.
Spoiler alert: they don't yet know what will actually work with AP2.0 hardware. But we have already seen the marketing and selling. Prepare for disappointment.
araxara
X-LR M3AWD, MYLR
Unfortunately, in my case, the database that Tesla uses in determining what is a non-divided road is woefully out of date. There are many roads here in Tucson that were once non-divided roads that have become divided roads more than 3-5 years ago. These are roads that once were only one lane in each direction and are now two lanes in each direction with a proper landscaped median.
It's "funny" watching the speed get reduced by Autopilot when on these supposed non-divided roads. In some cases the autopilot does not lower the speed to the speed limit when approaching the road from different directions. There are also cases where the speed limit has been reduced over a year ago, but autopilot still uses the old database speed limit until it encounters a speed limit sign.
As for being upset, yes I am upset, if anybody is keeping count.
Oh come on @u00mem9! Aren't you in awe of "Fleet Learning"? It was in a Tweet..it's got to be true....
Similar threads
