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Autopilot steering wheel hack

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With respect, I beg to differ. You could be right about the speed of regulation. But I'm not convinced. You can do whatever you like with your vehicle. But I'd thank you to be circumspect about it, so that we don't all lose the features we have today.

L5 is still a long way away: we haven't even seen a C2C drive yet. It'll take even longer for regulators to approve the technology. NHTSA is already on Tesla due to previous accidents. True, anyone savvy enough to pour sand out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel can figure out how to defeat the existing nag. But talking about it online? My friends, this is why we can't have nice things.

Here's how I fear this might play out:
  1. Consumers post online about defeating AP safety measures, aka hacking the nag
  2. Accidents make the news, forcing NHTSA to do something
  3. NHTSA requires new safety hardware: for example an interior camera monitored by software
  4. Overnight mandatory software update disables AutoSteer permanently on vehicles that can't be brought up to NHTSA requirements. Say this covers any vehicle without an interior camera: HW1 and HW2. Sorry, there is no upgrade path
  5. Overnight mandatory software update disables AutoSteer temporarily on newest vehicles, which have an interior camera. Tesla announces AutoSteer will be re-enabled pending software updates

Willing to drop $200 bucks that doesn’t happen I do respect though to manner to which you disagreed.
 
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Just the "nag stop hack" is not a terrible thing unless the drivers get too distracted or decide to do something stupid like watch a movie or go to sleep. Realistically, I don't think that the nag every few minutes is the silver bullet against distracted driving. I bet a good number of AP drivers are already distracted enough to cause significant injuries in between these nags.

EDIT - Having said that, my personal position is to not abuse the system with these kinds of hacks.
 
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With respect, I beg to differ. You could be right about the speed of regulation. But I'm not convinced. You can do whatever you like with your vehicle. But I'd thank you to be circumspect about it, so that we don't all lose the features we have today.

L5 is still a long way away: we haven't even seen a C2C drive yet. It'll take even longer for regulators to approve the technology. NHTSA is already on Tesla due to previous accidents. True, anyone savvy enough to pour sand out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel can figure out how to defeat the existing nag. But talking about it online? My friends, this is why we can't have nice things.

Here's how I fear this might play out:
  1. Consumers post online about defeating AP safety measures, aka hacking the nag
  2. Accidents make the news, forcing NHTSA to do something
  3. NHTSA requires new safety hardware: for example an interior camera monitored by software
  4. Overnight mandatory software update disables AutoSteer permanently on vehicles that can't be brought up to NHTSA requirements. Say this covers any vehicle without an interior camera: HW1 and HW2. Sorry, there is no upgrade path
  5. Overnight mandatory software update disables AutoSteer temporarily on newest vehicles, which have an interior camera. Tesla announces AutoSteer will be re-enabled pending software updates
I agree with you that posting it online is a TERRIBLE idea - let’s not forget tesla does monitor these forums and probably aren’t very happy about getting rid of the nag. I can see why one would want to get rid of the nag - but please don’t post it online, especially on this forum.... While I don’t personally see anything wrong with bypassing the nag I just hope tesla doesn’t see what people are doing on the forum and makes the nag way more annoying than it already is. Honestly the best way for tesla to solve this issue is to use an interior driver facing cam on the s and x like the 3 - I’d like to see if the nag is way less/nonexistent on the 3 when they implement the driver facing cam. And the backup to the cam can be wheel nag if the driver isn’t paying attention for a set period of time.
 
With respect, I beg to differ. You could be right about the speed of regulation. But I'm not convinced. You can do whatever you like with your vehicle. But I'd thank you to be circumspect about it, so that we don't all lose the features we have today.

L5 is still a long way away: we haven't even seen a C2C drive yet. It'll take even longer for regulators to approve the technology. NHTSA is already on Tesla due to previous accidents. True, anyone savvy enough to pour sand out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel can figure out how to defeat the existing nag. But talking about it online? My friends, this is why we can't have nice things.

Here's how I fear this might play out:
  1. Consumers post online about defeating AP safety measures, aka hacking the nag
  2. Accidents make the news, forcing NHTSA to do something
  3. NHTSA requires new safety hardware: for example an interior camera monitored by software
  4. Overnight mandatory software update disables AutoSteer permanently on vehicles that can't be brought up to NHTSA requirements. Say this covers any vehicle without an interior camera: HW1 and HW2. Sorry, there is no upgrade path
  5. Overnight mandatory software update disables AutoSteer temporarily on newest vehicles, which have an interior camera. Tesla announces AutoSteer will be re-enabled pending software updates

While I appreciate the OP's perspective, from a practical standpoint, you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

I find the current nag approach to be less safe than the previous iteration - and have communicated this and the details for, and examples of why to Tesla both verbally and in writing. With that said, the only thing worse than the current nag would be some sort of draconian prohibition of the functionality. Do I think this is a probable outcome? Certainly not. A possible outcome edging toward that 51% probable threshold? Certainly.

The first lawsuit was just filed within the past week concerning the EMS vehicle (fire truck) that was struck by a driver who claimed to have AP engaged. Unfortunately, their brain was apparently not similarly engaged at the time. The point here, according to a friend familiar with insurance litigation, is that as a possible result of the lawsuit, Tesla may now be forced to disclose more details concerning their current software.

That just brings us closer to some sort of aforementioned draconian solution - and the takeaway from all of *that* is that yes, threads like this are probably ill-advised. Informative for those who choose to live their lives one way, and anathema to those who choose to live their lives in another.

The propensity for people to do stupid things (see fire truck collision now being blamed in part upon AP, when for all we know, the driver may have been texting/eating/farding* - aka engaged in yer garden variety distracted driving) is doubly frustrating if one of the outcomes of the inevitable (at least in California) subsequent litigation is some sort of further restriction upon what few AP features we have today.

TLDR version (too late, I know): I appreciate the efforts of the OP and others, but wouldn't shed a single tear if this thread were to magically vaporize overnight due to... gremlins. It's not so much an endorsement of security through obscurity (which isn't, but that's another matter), as much as it is an appreciation of the sense inherent in not poking the litigious bear of over-regulation.

I'm perfectly fine looking out for myself. I don't need extra help (excessive regulation) in doing that, and the phrase quoted above, "this is why we can't have nice things" very much does seem to apply at the other end of the spectrum as well.
 
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The regulators required Tesla to implement nag due to people posting youtube video's of them sitting in the back seat texting while no one was behind the wheel.

What do you think they will be required to do when they read these posts.

I predict it will involve in car video of the operator and their hands and feet.

This was if something bad happens, the responsibility will fall to the operator.
 
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I hate the nags simply because even if my hands are on the wheel it doesn't recognize it, it's looking for torque being applied to the steering shaft and that doesn't happen when the autopilot is actually doing it's job. I notice the nag shows up when vehicles are moving around me, if the car in front changes lanes after 10 minutes it pops up. On a 2 hour drive with no one around it popped up only a few times. at least for my car with AP1 if you're always alone or always behind a car it hardly shows up, it's when there are changes that it wants to make sure you're still alive.
 
The regulators required Tesla to implement nag due to people posting youtube video's of them sitting in the back seat texting while no one was behind the wheel.

What do you think they will be required to do when they read these posts.

Require that autopilot be disabled remotely, pending further hardware upgrades. No autopilot for anyone.
 
Honestly the best way for tesla to solve this issue is to use an interior driver facing cam on the s and x like the 3.

The best way for Tesla to solve this issue would be to change the post-nag “hands on wheel” check to confirm user_torque < X followed by user_torque > X (ie torque applied to the wheel rather than torque present).

Or.

Put in a check for constant moderate torque to lock out those who attempt to defeat the safety system.
 
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The best way for Tesla to solve this issue would be to change the post-nag “hands on wheel” check to confirm user_torque < X followed by user_torque > X (ie torque applied to the wheel rather than torque present).

Or.

Put in a check for constant moderate torque to lock out those who attempt to defeat the safety system.

That’s so dumb.... so stop looking at the road an pay attention to the dash! Yeah great idea. In normal autopilot driving I’m almost never looking at the dash. I guarantee you I am paying more attention to the road.

They should immediately cease all efforts in driver punishment and focus on detecting all objects.
 
The reason there ARE nags is because of someone boasting on the Internet about driving with no hands and using the system in ways it was not designed. So the nags got put in place for everyone, and Tesla and the regulators were appeased. Bypassing this system will possibly result in further, more strict measures or the banning of AP completely until the bureaucrats come up with a solution.

I don't care if you do it. I care if you talk about it on the Internet.

Nailed it.

11.5oz was the magic number on my tests with steering on comfort mode. Any less than that it fails from time to time.

Now all of internet knows the magic number.

Hear anything? No? Exactly: No one cares. By the time regulators wrap their head on anything and act we are already at level 5 and this is all useless.

Chill.
Yeah yeah I know, it's your car you stay awake, you're paying attention, yada yada yada.

But what you may not realize is the system is already further limited because other owners boasted online as to how they were defeating nags. If you think NHTSA and others don't pay attention, then (no offense, but) you're not paying attention. If you think you're going to win this game of 'how to defeat nags', your victory is only temporary. And we will all have to live with additional controls as a result.

I don't really care what you do unless it impacts me. And owners posting stuff like this will impact me and force regulators to put more controls in place. So I am not appreciating your *creativity*.

File under 'This is why we cannot have nice things'.
 
?? Where did I suggest you had to look at the dashboard? I don’t think you understood my post..
True option 1 presumes you have been nagged (and is probably not needed) but option 2 would be a check for people hanging heavy objects on their steering wheels as a defeat device.

No, I understood correctly, you don't understand to consequences of what you've proposed. You would have to keep looking at the dash to see when you need to jiggle the wheel, because now even constant pressure is not enough. Don't look at the dash enough? interrupts your music and beeps loudly. Do it a couple more times, autopilot jail for you!

None of this actually forced you to pay attention to the road. You can jiggle the wheel and never take your eyes off YOUR PHONE.