Only cause you're using an autopilot buddy doesn't mean you can't pay attention or take over when you notice the car doesn't do what it's supposed to do. You still have to pay attention no matter what but you don't have to hold the wheel.
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Autopilot steering wheel hack
- Thread starter Rafaelm
- Start date
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- Tags
- Autonomous Vehicles
Only cause you're using an autopilot buddy doesn't mean you can't pay attention or take over when you notice the car doesn't do what it's supposed to do. You still have to pay attention no matter what but you don't have to hold the wheel.
Exactly. At the end of her day paying attention is what will save your life. And I think it is easier to pay attention with AP Buddy than without. The silly 20 second ‘hold steering’ messages are a distraction.
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TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Except that's not at all what's happening here. Not at all.
I keep my hand(s) on the wheel at all times. And still I am nagged constantly. And can lose AP in a few miles' time. It's gotten almost unusable. It's flat out kludged and broken now. I wouldn't have bought an AP2 car had there been full disclosure of the deficiencies relative to AP1, and nag is Exhibit A.
With AP1, the audible alert was entirely sufficient. With AP2, the messaging is worthless.
Again, my hand(s) are on the wheel at all times and still I get nagged because evidently I'm not wiggling the wheel enough. I refuse to look down at the IC when in fact my eyes should be ON THE ROAD. Note there is no IC in the Model 3 - which is supposedly the way of the future.
I won't buy another Tesla until this crap UI/UX is fixed, or until, to your other point, we get to L4/L5 - and the way it's going, I don't know that Tesla will be first with that. Hopefully, in the end, they'll still be the best.
If you’re holding the wheel, you can feel the wheel turning immediately, so you can recognize if the car is doing something wrong and can intervene without possibly fumbling in your attempt to grab the wheel. If an accident is imminent, even a brief delay can be too much. And that’s not mentioning how awful humans can be at making quick, immediate decisions and precise actions when surprised/scared by something unexpected happening.
A 1 lb ankle weight works nicely.
Something like this...
On bottom part of the wheel works.
Weider 10 lb. Pair Adjustable Ankle Weights-WAAW1011 - The Home Depot
Something like this...
On bottom part of the wheel works.
Weider 10 lb. Pair Adjustable Ankle Weights-WAAW1011 - The Home Depot
Attachments
MikeBur
ManualPilot
Interesting premise by OP, and while anyone can do anything they wish there are often consequences that result.
A few that can be imagined for this:
1) Increased regulatory requirements:
- low bar: would likely require Tesla to increase frequency of checks more often, with removal of any constant input torque vectors. Likely increases number of nags for everyone due to increased complexity and false positives that will result.
- mid bar: would like require reliable identification of use engagement through multi-sensor result from interior, camera, seat occupancy detector, self belt reel/tensioner (presumes sensor to read back), plus low bar req. Would effectively disable AP for anyone preAP2.5 permanently and else for some time.
- high bar: disable auto-steering until certification for FSD passes. Same disabling issues as mid bar, plus also requires regularatory certification for FSD, so this may take a little while longer still...
2) Requirement for retrieval of additional information by insurance companies with liability clause that enables them to reject claims when user inattention provable. Potentially live information stream via back end. If you don’t believe a number of insurance companies are salivating for more information from autonomous cars, you are wrong. If you believe this will be used only for “bad” drivers, you are also wrong.
The Road Ahead for Autonomous Cars and Auto Insurance
Four Ways Autonomous Vehicles will Change Auto Insurance - The Digital Insurer “The fraudulent customer has little or no time to think up embellished answers when the data the insurer needs comes from the telematics and sensor data in the car and your mobile phone. Insurers are able to determine a better picture of what happened without the customer’s input.”
3) Legal liability disputes will expose IP that will enable anti-Tesla/anti-EV parties to leverage.
4) feeding the wrong people. You actually believe these people are not already trawling this forum?
I hope the above helps anyone that is intending to continue to post workarounds for safety systems to reconsider.
I realise this is the Internet and anyone can say what they like, though you have to hope...
A few that can be imagined for this:
1) Increased regulatory requirements:
- low bar: would likely require Tesla to increase frequency of checks more often, with removal of any constant input torque vectors. Likely increases number of nags for everyone due to increased complexity and false positives that will result.
- mid bar: would like require reliable identification of use engagement through multi-sensor result from interior, camera, seat occupancy detector, self belt reel/tensioner (presumes sensor to read back), plus low bar req. Would effectively disable AP for anyone preAP2.5 permanently and else for some time.
- high bar: disable auto-steering until certification for FSD passes. Same disabling issues as mid bar, plus also requires regularatory certification for FSD, so this may take a little while longer still...
2) Requirement for retrieval of additional information by insurance companies with liability clause that enables them to reject claims when user inattention provable. Potentially live information stream via back end. If you don’t believe a number of insurance companies are salivating for more information from autonomous cars, you are wrong. If you believe this will be used only for “bad” drivers, you are also wrong.
The Road Ahead for Autonomous Cars and Auto Insurance
Four Ways Autonomous Vehicles will Change Auto Insurance - The Digital Insurer “The fraudulent customer has little or no time to think up embellished answers when the data the insurer needs comes from the telematics and sensor data in the car and your mobile phone. Insurers are able to determine a better picture of what happened without the customer’s input.”
3) Legal liability disputes will expose IP that will enable anti-Tesla/anti-EV parties to leverage.
4) feeding the wrong people. You actually believe these people are not already trawling this forum?
I hope the above helps anyone that is intending to continue to post workarounds for safety systems to reconsider.
I realise this is the Internet and anyone can say what they like, though you have to hope...
Hopefully, Darwin's law will hold sway and most of these Idiots don't survive to reproduce
It is possible. But I don't know why I would need to fumble in order to move my hand from my lab to the wheel. That's maybe 10 cm. I do agree that this is too risky for some people who are not good at making decisions, but that doesn't mean that others can't operate the car safer and more comfortably than others, without having a hand on the wheel.
Jonathantuba
Member
Correct! I can actually be holding the wheel and get distracted by the nags, as they take my eyes away from the road. Without nags one can concentrate on what is going on around you on the road, and not be looking at the dash all the time to catch the next nag flash before you get locked out of Autopilot.
The solution is camera eye attention detection. I am sure lots of Tesla owners would pay for that to be fitted to their cars to stop the nags. It could also be used to replace Pin to Drive using face detection to ensure the owner is the person driving. Security which requires no additional actions from the user is always the best security. I say that as an Information Security Manager in a previous profession.
I am sure the nags were only implemented to quickly legally protect Tesla from the stupid actions of a few people. They have not bothered to develop anything better, as don’t want to divert resources from developing FSD which who knows, may be a lot nearer than we think.
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People fumble routine actions all the time for a variety of reasons. Ever accidentally knock over a glass of water when you were reaching for it because of some distraction (someone talking to you, looking at something else, etc)? Or fumble for a brief moment when trying to pick up a pen? It doesn’t happen often, but the stakes are very freaking high when you’re driving 60-80 mph on the highway and something unexpected happens. Stress/shock/fear is also not generally conducive to good motor control or good decision making.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
It's not about visually recognizing an issue and correcting. If your hand is on the wheel, and the AP does something inconsistent with what you, as the attentive driver, would do, feedback from the wheel to the brain is direct. You can feel AP is doing something wrong, and react to it much more quickly than visually recognizing the situation, moving your hand to the wheel, then taking corrective action.
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
….and there is the crux of the problem. Many of us DO KEEP OUR HAND(s) on the wheel but don't find it comfortable or necessary to HANG our hand on the wheel. I have to apply more "force" on my Tesla steering wheel than I ever had to on any of my BMW's for actual steering myself just to satisfy the nag. I have always thought that some of our cars are not as sensitive to hands on wheel recognition and I have asked my SC on several occasions to check it out and was told "within tolerances" I have just resolved that I will wait until my pre-paid FSD takes over and this NAG nonsense will be soon forgotten.
At the risk of repeating myself, but the *RIGHT* way to drive is minimum inputs at all times. This is not only for racing, but also for keeping the car stable and in control under all conditions, rain, snow, ice, etc. If you know how to drive correctly, this thing will nag you forever.
Yes I get that, but you pretend that the moment from the autopilot doing something wrong to the moment of a crash is just like 0.02 seconds. I don't know. I never had any close calls or anything that was scary in 3 years. I am not saying that the AP never failed on me, I am saying that usually I m ahead of the AP, see a critical area (like 2 lanes splitting, weird markings or Sun shining right into the AP Camera) ahead of time, to be able to correct before it even happens. And the very few times AP really did something unexpected I grabbed the wheel as soon as I noticed it without any issue.
Maybe it's my racing history, my car journalist history or my pilot background that helps me evaluate the situation and react to a situation immediately. I mean I've seen people not understanding what this sort of tech can do and cannot do. For them something like the OP posted would be suicidal.
It’s sad that Tesla prioritizes staring at the dash instead of driving. Since the July update the nag is unreal. I’ve had it go off three times in less than a minute.
I can drive my truck towing 30,000lbs and provide less steering input going down the road.
I can drive my truck towing 30,000lbs and provide less steering input going down the road.
boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
Well one caveat to having to stare at the screen....this is his Dive in Navigate works. Messages pop up in the same space / same color / same icon / when input is needed for lane changes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I guess we will be driving by ICU soon. Lol lol lol
I hold the wheel at about 7 to 8 o'clock with just one hand on the outside of the wheel. I don't need any excess pressure on the wheel beyond what I need to to hold my hand there, and it's unbalanced enough to keep the nags away. That's easier than holding at 9 o'clock, which is quite a bit higher. I think if I put my full arm weight at 9 o'clock I'd probably pull it out of Autosteer. Comfort steering mode if that makes a difference. Do you need more torque when in Sport mode?
I can sympathize if you like to keep two hands on the wheel. I can still put a little torque on the wheel, but often enough I'm balanced in my pressure and the nags start up. Now here's where an Autopilot Buddy would work semi-safely, supplying the imbalance you want while you have normal a normal balanced two-handed grip. Might be a pain trying to keep AS on if you torque it just a little in the already weighted direction.
If you keep no hands on the wheel, be sure to post your "Autopilot tried to kill me" story about how you veered into the oncoming traffic lane but luckily no cars hit you and you were able to quickly get back into your own lane.
I can sympathize if you like to keep two hands on the wheel. I can still put a little torque on the wheel, but often enough I'm balanced in my pressure and the nags start up. Now here's where an Autopilot Buddy would work semi-safely, supplying the imbalance you want while you have normal a normal balanced two-handed grip. Might be a pain trying to keep AS on if you torque it just a little in the already weighted direction.
If you keep no hands on the wheel, be sure to post your "Autopilot tried to kill me" story about how you veered into the oncoming traffic lane but luckily no cars hit you and you were able to quickly get back into your own lane.
