Autopilot swerving on freeway with distinct lane markings!

[Electricfan]

No, I'm saying the roadway levels out pretty quickly. In other words, instead of a small rolling hill, it's an incline that levels out quickly. Notice that before you crest the bump, the lane markings in the distance are not very visible (if at all).

Cresting hills is one of about 5 scenarios that I suggested Tesla ought to work on improving next when it comes to Autosteer. Frankly, I think it would perform better if it just held course for a second when cresting a hill, instead of doing the hunting it does now.

You were right.

Tesla called me today after reviewing my car's logs and viewing the dashcam. They said the car lost the lane due to the hill and was following a car in front of me that appeared to be to the left, so the car thought the road was curving left. They said the truck was coming up beside me too quickly for the sensors to register they think - that's why it pulled over even though it would have caused a wreck.

So, long story short, autopilot isn't there yet. I continue to wonder why they released it knowing accidents will happen if the driver doesn't step in when needed.

 

[Naonak]

Not with today's "autopilot", I agree. But when I bought the car autopilot had not been released yet. I thought "autopilot" meant what lots of people on the forum today are referring to as "autonomous", and that I would indeed be able to read and let the car take me to my destination. Tesla advertised "from on-ramp to off-ramp" and that is what I bought. I didn't get it. What we have is "from on-ramp to off-ramp have both hands on the steering wheel and be ready to take over at any moment". If Tesla had advertised that I would NOT have traded my 2013 for a 2015. Autopilot sucks, as it is right now. I know most are elated with autopilot, and I'm certainly happy for them. But I have a right to say I didn't get what I was sold, because that is my opinion. I also think autopilot is going to cause an accident. If I had hit the truck Tesla would have blamed me. I would have blamed autopilot, but I'm sure Tesla's lawyers would have outgunned me in court. But if somebody dies in an accident where the autopilot steered the Model S into another car, I want to hear Tesla argue that "our car controlled the steering, brakes and accelerator but is not responsible for driving into the other vehicle" - the jury isn't going to buy it when a life is lost, I don't think. But when that much money is at stake, Tesla's lawyers will have formidable opponents going for the big payday, so the court fight will be fair. What I really hope, though, is that Tesla puts out autopilot 2.0 and our cars no longer swerve for any reason, and that autopilot is as safe or safer than a human driver. That certainly is what I thought I was buying.

This is interesting to read. I am in the same boat - when I first started contemplating purchasing, I was sold the same bill of goods - that by the end of 2015 (or was it the end of 2014? I can't remember now), we'd have On-ramp to Off-ramp driving AND we'd have summon on private roads where the car would come find you and pick you up. No *sugar*, that's seriously what the sales guy told me when Autopilot was first coming out. Obviously, that looks silly now and we'll probably never see that with current hardware - but that was the bill of goods that sold me on the whole Autopilot thing.

That said, I'm not completely displeased with the current iteration of it. It does make driving cross country easier ... but it is most assuredly not what was advertised/offered/claimed up on the initial release and promises made. What I am most displeased with, I think, is the @#%@#$@ constant "hold the wheel" nagging that pops up. I'm so sick of that stupid nag. It pops up WAYYYYYYYYYY too often. It will never, ever be on-ramp to off-ramp so long as it's nagging you ever few minutes to grab the wheel, no matter how good it gets.

 

[Electricfan]

This is interesting to read. I am in the same boat - when I first started contemplating purchasing, I was sold the same bill of goods - that by the end of 2015 (or was it the end of 2014? I can't remember now), we'd have On-ramp to Off-ramp driving AND we'd have summon on private roads where the car would come find you and pick you up. No *sugar*, that's seriously what the sales guy told me when Autopilot was first coming out. Obviously, that looks silly now and we'll probably never see that with current hardware - but that was the bill of goods that sold me on the whole Autopilot thing.

That said, I'm not completely displeased with the current iteration of it. It does make driving cross country easier ... but it is most assuredly not what was advertised/offered/claimed up on the initial release and promises made. What I am most displeased with, I think, is the @#%@#$@ constant "hold the wheel" nagging that pops up. I'm so sick of that stupid nag. It pops up WAYYYYYYYYYY too often. It will never, ever be on-ramp to off-ramp so long as it's nagging you ever few minutes to grab the wheel, no matter how good it gets.

That's funny you mentioned what the sales guy told you - I asked an Audi sales guy when they were going to get autopilot recently and he said "what's that?". So I told him a little about Tesla's version and he said "our car does that now - lane keeping assist will drive it in your lane". I didn't press him on it but I think it probably doesn't do the same thing. Oh well, they're sales people - they can't sell if they tell the truth! I'm waiting for AP 2.0 - hopefully in the Model 3 so when I trade again it won't be as expensive. Swapping Model Ss every couple of years is quite expensive.

 

[Naonak]

That's funny you mentioned what the sales guy told you - I asked an Audi sales guy when they were going to get autopilot recently and he said "what's that?". So I told him a little about Tesla's version and he said "our car does that now - lane keeping assist will drive it in your lane". I didn't press him on it but I think it probably doesn't do the same thing. Oh well, they're sales people - they can't sell if they tell the truth! I'm waiting for AP 2.0 - hopefully in the Model 3 so when I trade again it won't be as expensive. Swapping Model Ss every couple of years is quite expensive.

Yeah, it's not really the same thing:

Competions "Auto Steer" or Active Lane Assist - videos

The videos seem to indicate it just vibrates the wheel or nudges it a bit if you drift... there's no actual steering going on (But plenty of braking, apparently!) ...

 

[RogerHScott]

My car has swerved into the lane next to me

I must be missing something in this video. All I see is a minor shift to the left, entirely within your lane, and nothing remotely
close to "into the lane next to you". Does the video not actually capture what you're reporting here?

 

[RogerHScott]

Cresting hills is one of about 5 scenarios that I suggested Tesla ought to work on improving next when it comes to Autosteer. Frankly, I think it would perform better if it just held course for a second when cresting a hill, instead of doing the hunting it does now.

+1 I think this is actually the answer to several AP "bobble" issues: just extrapolate whatever you were doing when you had the necessary guidance into the area where you don't, for (obviously) a (very) limited amount of time (perhaps adjustable based on how steely the driver's nerves are?). The hill thing is the one that really unnerves me, 'cause I can't see over the crest, either, so who knows what trouble the bobble might get me into? In fairness to Tesla, though, they don't actually recommend using it on the kinds of roads that would have hills steep enough to cause significant problems. I'm kind of amazed at how well AP does work on roads that are far "beneath" what Tesla had in mind for it.

As for anyone not getting "what they were sold", I think Tesla has been amply clear what they were selling, so the misunderstanding is more likely to have been on the buying end. Dissatisfied is dissatisfied, but technology like AP is never going to get to where everyone wants it to go just in the lab -- you have to put an intermediate, limited solution out there and have thousands of real people use it in hundreds of thousands of real-world scenarios to refine it. Then iterate, iterate, iterate.

 

[Electricfan]

I must be missing something in this video. All I see is a minor shift to the left, entirely within your lane, and nothing remotely
close to "into the lane next to you". Does the video not actually capture what you're reporting here?

Do you have a dashcam? Maybe you do, but I'm guessing maybe you don't from your comment. Either way, dashcam video is like this - lots of things that are quite striking when you experience them in real life don't show up well on video. I completely agree the video doesn't seem to show anything bad.

But trust me, I was driving along and my car suddenly swerved left, and if I hadn't jerked the wheel back into my lane - or to keep it in my lane as you're quite right I didn't let it cross out of my lane - I would have crashed into the truck to my left. If this hasn't happened to you yet, you might want to reserve judgment, because you'll have this experience eventually, and I hope you have "both hands on the wheel and are ready to take over at any moment"! There's a reason Tesla requires that!! Best of luck to you.

 

[Electricfan]

As for anyone not getting "what they were sold", I think Tesla has been amply clear what they were selling, so the misunderstanding is more likely to have been on the buying end. Dissatisfied is dissatisfied, but technology like AP is never going to get to where everyone wants it to go just in the lab -- you have to put an intermediate, limited solution out there and have thousands of real people use it in hundreds of thousands of real-world scenarios to refine it. Then iterate, iterate, iterate.

Your idea of "clear" is kind of murky to me. It doesn't say anywhere on Tesla's page shown below (as of today 4/14/16) that the driver must keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment. That's not being clear - its being intentionally misleading and deceptive. To some (probably most) autopilot as it is implemented right now is unacceptable and in fact dangerous. I hope I'm wrong, but I think somebody is going to be hurt or killed if they don't make it better very soon.

 

[RogerHScott]

That's not being clear - its being intentionally misleading and deceptive

Whoa, there. That's a big leap from unclear to intentionally misleading and deceptive, one that requires making IMO baseless assumptions about Tesla's motives. Do you consider every automaker's cruise control to be equivalently evil, since they also do not free the driver from ultimate responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle? The kind of fully autonomous operation that you're looking for -- and, frankly, that Tesla is dreaming of for the (near?) future -- is little more than science fiction at this point. It is unfortunate for you that you do not derive any satisfaction from significant steps toward such lofty goals, even if the goals themselves remain distant. I guess this is the classic glass-half-full/glass-half-empty question.

 

[Naonak]

I'm not disappointed with Autopilot, but I do agree that Tesla was marketing it (was ... not sure about IS) as fully autonomous driving for awhile there, at least... and that's not what we have. Again, I'm fairly happy with what we have now - would I like more? Heck yeah, of course I would... but I understand the technical hurdles all too well for something like this, so I don't have as much rancor over the subject as some people might.

I am pretty disappointed/saddened that I can't tell the car to go park itself and then summon it to come get me in a parkinglot. I don't think that's too much to ask for at this point. Well, at least the summoning park - the go park yourself part may be a ways off.

 

[EVie'sDad]

watched my model S 'bob and weave' in lanes on the highway, meanwhile the visual representation on the dash constantly seem to lose view of one land, and then bob/weave towards that missing lane until it found it, at which time the other lane markings would disappear, causing the vehicle to bob/weave back in the other direction like a drunk driver. This needs to be analyzed and behavior updated to not begin hunting by drifting towards another lane if one lane remains visible.

 

[JenniferQ]

Hunting more here, too, and I had it "dive" right again at an exit today. Hasn't done that for months after the first update to AP. Also hill hold is now back to having to mash on the brake rather than tap it. Not sure "Rainbow Road" is worth all of this!

 

[Petra]

Cresting hills is one of about 5 scenarios that I suggested Tesla ought to work on improving next when it comes to Autosteer. Frankly, I think it would perform better if it just held course for a second when cresting a hill, instead of doing the hunting it does now.

Yeah, I've noticed that AP will consistently pull to one direction when cresting a hill (small or otherwise) and pull to the opposite direction when hitting the bottom of a dip (e.g. between two little hills, rolling roads, slight transitions from downhill to uphill, etc.). At this point, I just apply pressure to the wheel to correct for it without disengaging AP.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Hunting more here, too, and I had it "dive" right again at an exit today. Hasn't done that for months after the first update to AP. Also hill hold is now back to having to mash on the brake rather than tap it. Not sure "Rainbow Road" is worth all of this!

agreed, maybe our last update gave all our Teslas collective amnesia, until another update comes along to remind them of all the previous learning before our last OS update.

 

[JenniferQ]

I just don't understand why they have to take away new learned behaviours before reinstating them? I really liked the new "tap" for hillhold. And, frankly, I see it as a hazard that it's changed so dramatically with no mention in the release notes. I have had my car roll several times now with what would have engaged hillhold two days ago, now doesn't.

 

[Pruitt]

I think everyone has missed the reality here.

The Model S is the fighter plane of the highways. All this jinking around autopilot does on occasion is to avoid / shake a missile lock from a non-Tesla (read: Ford Tri-motor) vehicle.

 

[Todd Burch]

I'm not seeing any changes to hill hold or autopilot. Really weird how some are, and some aren't.

 

[wcalvin]

Saw the swerve from left lane to shoulder several times in recent weeks, though not last winter.

 

[Electricfan]

Whoa, there. That's a big leap from unclear to intentionally misleading and deceptive, one that requires making IMO baseless assumptions about Tesla's motives. Do you consider every automaker's cruise control to be equivalently evil, since they also do not free the driver from ultimate responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle? The kind of fully autonomous operation that you're looking for -- and, frankly, that Tesla is dreaming of for the (near?) future -- is little more than science fiction at this point. It is unfortunate for you that you do not derive any satisfaction from significant steps toward such lofty goals, even if the goals themselves remain distant. I guess this is the classic glass-half-full/glass-half-empty question.

Its intentionally deceptive because it does not say "Driver must keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any time while Autopilot is trying to steer within the lane". That's what it should say if it was honest and truthful. It implies a capability the car DOES NOT HAVE. Any objective person reading the Tesla webpage I put in my post for you to see would conclude the car stays within its lane with no assistance from the operator. It does not do this. It swerves and will cause an accident if the operator does not pay strict attention, and that is "false and misleading" by any objective measure. Just my opinion.

 

[brec]

Its intentionally deceptive because it does not say "Driver must keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any time while Autopilot is trying to steer within the lane". That's what it should say if it was honest and truthful. It implies a capability the car DOES NOT HAVE. Any objective person reading the Tesla webpage I put in my post for you to see would conclude the car stays within its lane with no assistance from the operator. It does not do this. It swerves and will cause an accident if the operator does not pay strict attention, and that is "false and misleading" by any objective measure. Just my opinion.

Why *both* hands? For decades I've been driving with one hand on the wheel, and I've swerved out of harm's way many times.

More generally: The extensive agreement that you must acknowledge when you enable AutoSteer in Settings; the extensive cautions in the Owner's Manual; the notice at the bottom of the instrument panel when you engage AutoSteer; its nags when it lacks sensing of the wheel being held -- all these count for nothing?

Edit: I see now that upthread you said

But I have a right to say I didn't get what I was sold, because that is my opinion.

Just so; you have the right to express any opinion you might have.