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Autopilot TACC - still a work in progress
- Thread starter krisg81
- Start date
bluenation
Member
autopilot is not ready...except for the most ideal of use cases
when you eventually hit someone, you think you gonna escape the insurance liability? tamper down on the tech enthusiasm
when you eventually hit someone, you think you gonna escape the insurance liability? tamper down on the tech enthusiasm
I wonder if the OPs TACC is working properly. My TACC worked extremely well over about 600 miles of driving on a variety of conditions. My main issues are as described by Todd, I.e. If-car pulls into the exit lane and starts slowing down the car seems to brake and doesn't resume as quickly as I need. Incidentally, the distance numbers do not represent car lengths. The release notes state that the distance varies according to speed. This is my experience too.
Having used the Mercedes S550 TACC for about 85K miles, I can say, with practice, you understand that if traffic intervenes, you have to be ready to interject yourself. Remember, you are the driver. Anyone who claims the TACC almost caused a rear-ender, is not understanding the need to stay involved.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
I've had a few times when I've felt like TACC wasn't going to stop fast enough. From what I've seen it waits to brake longer than I would have, but ultimately would have stopped me. I've only had one scenario when I was sure that my intervention was absolutely necessary. Happened yesterday when the car ahead of me made a very sudden stop from 50 mph. Was pretty clear it wasn't braking hard enough and I stepped in.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Uh, it does cause less than completely safe scenarios, and abrupt manual intervention is most assuredly required.
While this may be perceived as an acceptable risk by and for early adopters, there is no way that I would feel comfortable with various family or friends being subjected to this unfinished experiment.
i presume that this will get better before it is time for all to join the M3 waiting list.
While this may be perceived as an acceptable risk by and for early adopters, there is no way that I would feel comfortable with various family or friends being subjected to this unfinished experiment.
i presume that this will get better before it is time for all to join the M3 waiting list.
I've had the same concern in previous posts so after reading these others posts and after my wife said "Holy sh*t" as we used TACC in heavy traffic between San Diego and SJC today, I started playing with the TACC distance settings, it was initially on 1 which was causing the "Holy sh*t" sensations when approaching traffic at speed. I found that if I adjusted the distance setting to a higher number as I see the traffic ahead and brake lights before TACC makes any adjustments, I start to slow down well ahead of time and to prevent people from cutting me off in traffic, I adjust the number down. Not so much hands off, but at leadt I didn't need to take TACC off.
Having logged quite a few miles with TACC, I'd say that this one is especially unusual. In fact, the car often seems to me to conclude that someone has left the lane far too slowly. When I'm stuck behind slow moving traffic in the left lane I sometimes use the accelerator because the car waits too long to speed up once someone has cleared the fast lane.
The one that makes me crazy is when you in stop and go traffic on in the interstate and someone leaves your lane and opens a temporarily large gap in front of you. The car which is now next up may be traveling at 25 or 30mph, but the cruise control will speed up wildly attempting to reach the set speed only to then brake very hard once it closes in on the car in front. Given that it knows the car is there (you get the blue lock symbol), it presumably knows that it is only going 25mph, so it would be nice if it just sped up to 35 or so and closed the gap in a more leisurely manner. This whipsaw of acceleration followed immediately by braking happens quite often and it brakes far too abruptly for my taste.
That must be nice. I use 1 and people constantly shove themselves into the space... which makes the car slow down... which makes people jump in front of me... ad nauseam.
Aside from that, I enjoy TACC. I use it all the time. My only other complaint, as Gpetti mentioned, the car tracks cars that are exiting and slows down as though they're still in the same lane. I think this can be over-ridden by hitting the gas until the other car is no longer being tracked.
The tricky bit is going to be replicating human anticipation. There have been folks who state the autopilot reaction is better than a person's. I disagree somewhat. An experienced driver who is paying attention can tell when the car is going to try to sneak into the space ahead of you, or can see the car one ahead's brake lights (through the windows of the car in front, or around one side or the other of the car in front) and at least let off the throttle before the car directly ahead starts to brake.
Otherwise, it feels it is still a safety feature to aid in reducing colisions, etc. when a driver very momentarily takes their eyes off the road ahead to check a mirror, look at the radio or nav, and something happens necessetating a maneuver.
Otherwise, it feels it is still a safety feature to aid in reducing colisions, etc. when a driver very momentarily takes their eyes off the road ahead to check a mirror, look at the radio or nav, and something happens necessetating a maneuver.
But that also happens when you are just using your foot and driving "manually". That is not a TACC problem, it's a "other people driving stupidly" problem. There is nothing that an auto driving function can do about other drivers insisting on squeezing into a gap in an unsafe way.
In my 45 years of driving experience, a majority of drivers lack the concept of a safe following distance. They don't understand the concepts of reaction time and braking distance. SUVs and big trucks where the drivers sits higher up have only exacerbated this problem: those drivers seem to think that because they can usually see over the car in front of them this means they can follow even more closely.
This problem will only be solved in about 30 years when almost all cars on the road have will highly developed auto pilot capabilities and can anticipate and correct for emergency situations.
Until then, people will continue to cut into a 20 foot gap while traveling at 70mph and think that is a safe thing to do. I see it happen multiple times every day I am on the road.
For some reason the URL you posted did not display as a clickable link. Here it is as a link Driverless Car to Begin Cross-Country Trip Sunday - ABC News
The driverless car in that story is an AUDI using system from Delphi, and Delphi uses MobilEye. As does Tesla.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
I've been driving a Gen III Prius with TACC for the last five years. (I'm currently contemplating upgrading to the MS.) I have a long commute on mixed highway and two-lane roads, always with lots of stop-and-go traffic. I use TACC every opportunity I get. The biggest challenge to effectively using this feature is learning all of it's nuances. For instance, when the car ahead of me pulls over into an exit lane and starts to slow, my Prius will continue to track that car for several seconds, slowing down as well. Not a good thing when cruising on the interstate. So, I have learned in this situation I just need to kick of TACC until clear of that car then I can reengage. I imagine Tesla will have it's own idiosyncrasies and it will just take some time and a lot of practice.
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mejojo
Active Member
v1 of Tesla TACC also does this. You have the option of clicking on the left turn signal for a moment to get the Model S to "ignore" the exiting car, but I haven't yet learned to do that automatically.
As mentioned earlier, the car jumping into the gap in front of you causes your car to slow even though everyone is going the same speed. I think it could be more calm about eventually restoring the spacing.
One that "got me" was, while following another car, we were slowing for a stop light. As I noticed the lane to the right was vacant, I slid over there, and the car accelerated. It felt dangerous for a moment.
Another one is when going round a curve, it occasionally thinks a vehicle in the other lane (which happens to be in front of you at the moment) is in your lane and you need to slow.
I think these are all things that can and will be smoothed out, as well as users will adjust to these things.
+++1. Last summer in the San Fransisco and south urban sprawl area I noticed something on the highway: near-bumper to bumper at 40-70mph, then a large gap in front of.... wait for it.... a Tesla Model S, then bumper-to-bumper. A few miles further on, the scenario repeated. We noticed that at least 7 times, LOL.
That's how I drive, and I don't mind in the least when drivers dive into the gap (which then means I have to slow a bit, again). I don't mind because I just know they'll do it, and I won't expend the negative energy doing any "minding". I'd rather have plenty of room, thank you, because the one-pedal driving is just better, and anyway I sure don't want to rear-end anyone.
Further to TACC, though I'll never have the Tesla version, my previous Infiniti M35 would think a car that had moved into a left-turn lane off the highway was still in front. Made for some exciting times when it suddenly slammed on the brake. I learned not to EVER trust it completely -- but it was still valuable in "normal" situations and light traffic flow. At least someone with a Tesla TACC now will get improved versions over time.
Move to 6 or 7... Ive been in LA traffic at 7 and virtually no problems. One or two cars may pull into the gap but who cares?
Odenator
Member
Not only should people watch out for other drivers moving slowly in and out the lane in front of them, they should also watch out when changing lanes with TACC on. Today, I was driving behind another car at 8mph slower than the set cruise control speed. I slowly changed lanes after another car had passed me on the left and when I was half way between lanes, the car started to accelerate rapidly. It accelerated so fast that I had to brake to prevent hitting the front cars. Looks like the gap between the cars fooled the front radar into sensing there were no cars in front of me.
We were in a highway stop and go situation today and I had to override the TACC. Traffic had speeded up to about 60, then quickly, but not unusually so, slowed down and stopped. The TACC saw the car in front starting to slow and slowed our car, but not fast enough to avoid closing on the lead car very quickly. In fact, quickly enough that the crash warning popped up on the display. I'd be watching all this closely and slammed on the brakes just as the warning came on and stopped in time without much problem.
IMHO, this is a flat out bug. TACC should brake hard enough to avoid collisions (Duh!). It had seen the car ahead slowing, why didn't it match it's deceleration rather than coming up to rear end the car?
It's also very bad at dealing with people entering a highway who are a bit shaky on the concept of Yield. It doesn't notice them until they are almost completely in the lane, often getting much to close to the entering car. If the radar beam is that narrow, that's a bit broken too IMHO.
IMHO, this is a flat out bug. TACC should brake hard enough to avoid collisions (Duh!). It had seen the car ahead slowing, why didn't it match it's deceleration rather than coming up to rear end the car?
It's also very bad at dealing with people entering a highway who are a bit shaky on the concept of Yield. It doesn't notice them until they are almost completely in the lane, often getting much to close to the entering car. If the radar beam is that narrow, that's a bit broken too IMHO.
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