Autopilot - Tesla hugs OUTSIDE of curves---why?

[PC__LoadLetter]

This is getting particularly bad in Australia...

Ever since I did my truck license I started pointing my mirrors just far enough down to see the lane markings I've just passed, to position the car in the lane more accurately. And when I did the mandatory training before getting my motorcycle license, they told me exactly how to operate in curves. When I look down at the mirrors on autopilot and I see lane lines, on a curve to the left, the car hugs the right side of the lane throughout the entire curve. This is the exact opposite of acceptable driving behaviour. It even keeps driving over the botts dots in the process.

Appropriate behaviour is to start on the right side (centre), then sharply cross to the left (side), and then exit the curve either in the centre (for a car, though on the right on a motorbike, to avoid the centre slick).

At first I assumed that Tesla had coded Autopilot to hug the right of a curve to the left, which is close enough to natural driving behaviour for a LHD country (and grossly inappropriate in a RHD country).

But if you've been having this issue in the USA, on your side of the road, assuming they haven't fixed it yet, now I think it's just inappropriate code.

Alternatively, if you guys got it fixed in the last year, maybe they've done it by overcompensating to the right, causing problems for us.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Curves worked well for me on 2020.28.5, or the release before that. Ever since then, I’ve had the same issues as the OP, and apparently others. I attribute it to the car not slowing enough for curves.

Since then, the car enters the curves too fast, then brakes late(like when it’s already left the apex of the curve). This is exactly the opposite of how curves should be handled. Slow into them, accelerating out of them.

A lot of the roads I drive are rural, some are handled better than others, probably about 50/50.

 

[run-the-joules]

It's been a problem for years, but of course Elon says highway autopilot is superhuman and great

 

[Kevy Baby]

It's been a problem for years, but of course Elon says highway autopilot is superhuman and great

Gotta say I disagree with this sentiment. AP is pretty freaking fantastic - it really is something quite spectacular as long as you are using it for what it was designed (hint: it is not "FSD Light"). It took some getting used to (it can understeer a bit on transition road curves, but always stays within the lane), but overall, I am very satisfied with it.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Appropriate behaviour is to start on the right side (centre), then sharply cross to the left (side), and then exit the curve either in the centre (for a car, though on the right on a motorbike, to avoid the centre slick).

At first I assumed that Tesla had coded Autopilot to hug the right of a curve to the left, which is close enough to natural driving behaviour for a LHD country (and grossly inappropriate in a RHD country).

I think your expectations of what AP is supposed to do are off.

The lane positioning you are describing is more important when driving a semi truck or taking the "racers line". When driving a passenger automobile, this lane positioning is nice but not some great safety error if not. AP is designed to keep you in your lane (and maintain speed) and it does exactly that. Yes, sometimes I would pick a different line, but once I spent some time with AP, I realized it was doing its job as described.

And I will maintain that your car on AP is overall safer than a human. It may not take the line you want all the time, but it isn't distracted like a human can be.

 

[run-the-joules]

Gotta say I disagree with this sentiment. AP is pretty freaking fantastic - it really is something quite spectacular as long as you are using it for what it was designed (hint: it is not "FSD Light"). It took some getting used to (it can understeer a bit on transition road curves, but always stays within the lane), but overall, I am very satisfied with it.

I have absolutely seen it fail to stay within the lane. It's less common now (happened a lot 3 or so years ago on mountain roads) but I still see it from time to time.
I love autopilot but Elon's calling of it as "superhuman" is preposterous.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I have absolutely seen it fail to stay within the lane. It's less common now (happened a lot 3 or so years ago on mountain roads) but I still see it from time to time.

Okay, moving past the time frame, I think I found your problem: AP is designed for HIGHWAY use. Yes, it works other places, but certainly not on windy mountain roads - even says so specifically in the manual (see below). It's like complaining that Auto Lane Change doesn't work when you're going 20 MPH faster than traffic and want to weave in and out of lanes.

In the 32,000+ miles I have driven my Model 3 (probably 85%+ on AP), I have NEVER had it fail to stay in my lane when using AP properly.

Tesla Model 3 NA Manual, Page 81

Limitations
Many factors can impact the performance of Autopilot components, causing them to be unable to function as intended. These include (but are not limited to):

• Narrow or winding roads.

 

[Battouttahe77]

My M3 LR stays within the lanes but it seems to hug the inside of the curves. Either that, or I normally stay to the outside and the center of the lane seems like it's too far to the inside.

 

[run-the-joules]

Okay, moving past the time frame, I think I found your problem: AP is designed for HIGHWAY use. Yes, it works other places, but certainly not on windy mountain roads - even says so specifically in the manual (see below). It's like complaining that Auto Lane Change doesn't work when you're going 20 MPH faster than traffic and want to weave in and out of lanes.

In the 32,000+ miles I have driven my Model 3 (probably 85%+ on AP), I have NEVER had it fail to stay in my lane when using AP properly.

Tesla Model 3 NA Manual, Page 81

I'm talking about I-80. Not exactly a local road. Winding is a relative term.

 

[Cheburashka]

Here is a pic I took today.

Not only does it hug the inside of the lane, AP often drives on the lane markings themselves, dangerously close to the next lane over.

Pretty much unusable on a highway with actual curves.

Latest FW with FSD.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Pretty much unusable on a highway with actual curves.

Let me post a picture without context and yet the picture shows the car is still within its lane, but "pretty much unusable , dawg!"

By context, here is what I mean: what road is this on? A pic of the map would help.
The context that IS there in the picture is that you are on an undivided 2 lane road (1 lane in each direction) coming out of a turn/curve.

But you keep on ing...

 

[Cheburashka]

Let me post a picture without context and yet the picture shows the car is still within its lane, but "pretty much unusable , dawg!"

By context, here is what I mean: what road is this on? A pic of the map would help.
The context that IS there in the picture is that you are on an undivided 2 lane road (1 lane in each direction) coming out of a turn/curve.

But you keep on ing...

Wrong. Divided 2 lane highway.

I would not consider tire hitting the Botts dots as "within it's lane"

 

[mikes_fsd]

Wrong. Divided 2 lane highway.

I would not consider tire hitting the Botts dots as "within it's lane"

clearly you will not have a problem posting a picture of this happening with the map in the shot showing your cars location then.

A divided 2 lane highway means you have a median or barrier between you and the oncoming traffic.

In your post you said:

dangerously close to the next lane over.

What lane were you close to?

And if by "divided 2 lane highway" you mean 2 lanes in each direction your ICU screen does not show an adjacent lane that you can switch to which Autopilot does a very good job at.

So, one last question, what is so "dangerous" in that specific situation that you provided without context?

 

[Cheburashka]

clearly you will not have a problem posting a picture of this happening with the map in the shot showing your cars location then.

Sure. Will do next time I drive the road. It's Highway 17 right after Lexington Reservoir. Bay Area people will be familiar with that road.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Highway 17 right after Lexington Reservoir.

That is a divided 4 lane highway (2 lanes in each direction)
And your ICU picture does not show an adjacent lane rendered. Would love a pic with better context.

 

[Cheburashka]

Yep, 2 lanes in each direction with divider.

 

[Cheburashka]

Here is the teslacam screenshot. In this case the tire is on the edge of the lane marking. Anyone who drives 17 can corroborate this behavior as it happens every time. I'm sure someone will chime in shortly.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Here is the teslacam screenshot. In this case the tire is on the edge of the lane marking. Anyone who drives 17 can corroborate this behavior as it happens every time. I'm sure someone will chime in shortly.

LOL, ok.
So, you coming out of a turn while staying in your lane is "dangerous".
I think we need definitions of key words before posting stuff.

 

[Cheburashka]

Correct. This isn't a racetrack, you aren't supposed to drive on the edge of the lane in a curve.

 

[CaliSurfer]

I had this "lane sway" issue when I first bought my MS used. So I recalibrated the cameras and during that time I tried to drive as centered as possible. I have never had this problem since unless I was approaching a turn on AP faster than I should have been. During those times it just seemed like my MS was a little behind real time but I am also on a MCU1 which means my MS has a smaller brain! I use AP most of my daily commute in the city (windy New England roads) and on I-91 / I-90 to give some context to the road conditions.