TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Autopilot v8.0.. what's the problem?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by fallen888, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    920
    Location:
    Georgia
    When I went on my test drive about two weeks ago, AP was very jumpy and kept making small changes to keep the car in the center of the lane which caused very noticeable swerves back and forth. The salesman said that the car was too new and that it takes a while before AP learns to drive smoothly. I didn't see the number of miles on the car, but he said they only had it a few days.

    TACC was even worse. I tried it a few times, and each time as the car approached traffic it would start to slow down and then disengage TACC completely so that I had to take over and brake myself to avoid hitting the cars in front of me. Again the salesman said that TACC doesn't work very well on brand new cars.

    Those experiences would have driven me away from AP all together if I hadn't read so many forum posts and watched so many videos showing how well AP can work.

    I placed my order for a P100D last week, and the estimated delivery date isn't until December so I have a long time before I am going to be able to test it all out again for myself.
     
  2. msnow

    msnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,971
    Location:
    SoCal
    It's a shame they don't train these sales people better.
     
  3. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    SK/Canada
    I am also getting the hold the wheel message every 60 seconds since the update.

    I totally "get" this now (even though I won't do it):

     
  4. hybridbear

    hybridbear Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    522
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Maybe I didn't phrase it very well, or maybe we just think about it differently. What I was trying to say is that to me the point of Autosteer is to allow you to not have to focus on the tedious task of keeping the car centered in the lane so that you can pay better attention to other driving conditions. I previously had a Ford Fusion Energi with a Lane Keep Assist system that was frequently nudging me back inside my lane because I would wander. I have since noticed that I do a very poor job of keeping my car centered in my lane when driving. When I am driving on the highway I prefer to focus my attention on the other vehicles around me. I monitor the speed of other cars, their movements & thus I can anticipate what they are going to do. By allowing Autosteer to take over the task of steering I can free up all of my mental resources to focus on other vehicles. I try to be constantly aware of what is going on around me so that I am never surprised on the road. I try to be constantly aware of the other cars around me so that I don't really need to look before changing lanes because I know where all the other cars are. I do still always check my mirrors & look over my shoulder before changing lanes, but it's just to confirm what I already know. Not having to focus on also steering the car allows me to more easily focus on all the other road conditions. Over my time with AP I have also learned to anticipate when Autosteer will struggle to read the lines on the road. Thus, I am also rarely surprised by an Autosteer wander because the car is struggling to interpret the lane markings.

    To me, the point of AP is to reduce the driver's mental workload for tedious tasks like maintaining following distance or staying centered in the lane so that the driver's mental resources can be devoted to more difficult tasks such as monitoring the other vehicles and predicting their behavior (otherwise known as defensive driving). That is why I view AP as a safety feature first & foremost. It's just like when a manufacturing facility brings in automation. The purpose of automation is that certain monotonous tasks can be performed better by a computer than by a human. This then frees up your labor resources on the factory floor to focus on more difficult tasks.

    Since that is how I view AP, adding increased nags to hold the steering wheel are a detriment to its safety benefits. Each nag requires me to divert my attention away from defensive driving to grab the wheel and look down at the dash to confirm that the prompt to hold the wheel has cleared. Each time this happens my brain is interrupted from its primary task of defensive driving & is forced to perform a non-value-added task in touching the steering wheel. Increasing the nag frequency when the system is not having confidence level issues does not promote safety. I do think that Autosteer is too confident, though. I believe that it should more frequently prompt the driver to hold the wheel due to its lack of confidence in reading the lane markings.

    Sadly, many drivers do not use AP as it is designed, and thus Tesla has to dumb the system down for the people that abuse it. Based on what I've read about AP I believe that my method of using it is as Tesla intends. Since 8.0 makes it more difficult to do so, I do not plan to install the update.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Max*

    Max* Charging

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,645
    Location:
    NoVa
    ...

    Like I said, I agree with 98% of what you wrote, but that's not the intended usage of AP. You're supposed to keep your hands on the wheel. That's the intended usage.

    So I agree with your sentiment, I don't agree that AP is designed to allow you to keep your hands off the wheel. Do a lot of people do it? Sure. Is it capable of you not having your hands on the wheel? Sure, 99.9% of the time. Can you react fast enough in those other 0.1% of the time? Maybe.


    Do I keep my hands on the wheel 100% of the time? No. But lately, I tend to just rest my left arm on the wheel while driving so that there are no nags, and that if AP does something stupid I can react quicker. Do I think it's necessary to keep your hands on the wheel 100% of the time? Probably not. Do I think that's Tesla's "intended usage" to keep your hands OFF the wheel? No.

    You mean the prompt that tells you to keep your hands on the wheel each time you enable AP?
     
  6. msnow

    msnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,971
    Location:
    SoCal
    +1 on keeping at least one hand the wheel. Thats the intended usage.
     
  7. uberanalyst

    uberanalyst Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2015
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Great Falls, VA
    The Poll doesn't reflect reality because there are many of us who have zero experience with 8.0 -- and thus aren't qualified to respond to it. We've read about everyone else's 8.0 experience and learned that we're better off sticking with 7.1 for as long as possible.
     
  8. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,900
    Location:
    Lafayette, IN
    More like guessed or inferred, rather than learned. I think it is pretty hard to put together a comprehensive understanding of the
    pros and cons of 8.0 from the anecdotal info available here.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    946
    Location:
    USA
    Kmanauto videos on YouTube are a decent attempt to compare
     
  10. Lex

    Lex Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    759
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    #50 Lex, Oct 12, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
    Doesn't tell me anymore, mine was changed a while back to display a plea to do so instead. Very courteous I thought :)

    Here's my simple take: govern yourself according to your abilities, confidence, and comfort level. eg. if you have faster than average reaction times, that specifically means that many or even most others can / should NOT do as you may attempt to do.

    Heck some old school analog drivers have used their knees at times. I suggest we've had enough of this discussion as there is no answer for everyone, and this is especially true with the current Model S hardware.

    BTW, I don't think I've ever seen a video with Elon or anyone else demonstrating Autopilot with their hands on the wheel but I'd be interested to see them if you can find them. Even MobilEye has demonstrated AP as a hands-off system in a presentation, before they blasted Tesla for selling it as hands-off.

    Just today I had to tug a couple of times before the "hold" registered enough force, and before the dreaded, anxiety-producing chimes.

    Sigh.
     
  11. msnow

    msnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,971
    Location:
    SoCal
    Before pivoting off of this topic...1)Elon says your hands should be on the wheel. 2)You have to agree to keeping your hands on the wheel before it is enabled and finally 3) even with your catlike super human reaction capabilities that split second response time could cost lives so it's important. /end rant.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. Max*

    Max* Charging

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,645
    Location:
    NoVa
    I still do this.

    <-- Not old school
     
    • Funny x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC