Just take a look at the new Mercedes A class, it has TACC, lane keeping, auto-lane change (including checking it is safe to change) and a whole lot more, all as standard on the base model...
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Autopilot worth the money?
- Thread starter Subevo
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Just take a look at the new Mercedes A class, it has TACC, lane keeping, auto-lane change (including checking it is safe to change) and a whole lot more, all as standard on the base model...
EV-lutioin
Active Member
A Tesla without AP? Surely you jest! All kidding aside, the TACC features of AP are worth every penny in a place like California where we drive long distances and suffer daily traffic jams. If you have any traffic at all, it will change your life.
MagicMagicD
Member
Sadly, in a lot of other parts of the world, certainly in the UK there are lots of roads where Autopilot just isn't workable.
TACC is probably useable in more places, hence me saying it should be standard at the Model S/X price - I think most owners would get a good amount of use out of it.
12Pack
Member
Is it the one from this article? Seems like a disaster.
The War For Autonomous Driving: 2017 Mercedes-Benz E-Class VS. 2017 Tesla Model S
I was unsure when ordering, but glad I ordered mine with EAP now. AS is a pretty cool feature, but for me it's TACC that really makes it useable for most of the time - like when simply following a line of traffic. I'm using AS more often now too as I get used to it and it does add some interest/novelty to an otherwise mundane motorway trip. Not sure I'd consider paying to upgrade an existing car though, I think it's point of sale or no return!
It seems to have moved on somewhat since then but as ever the proof will come in the reports from 'normal' drivers once the new A class gets into their hands over the next couple of months...
thegruf
Active Member
Well I let a true lifelong BMW fan have a drive to convince myself I wasnt going mad.
His conclusion "handling is sh*t and the engine sounds like a pile of cr@p; just horrible"
He was pretty surprised himself, but said just to use it in manual which is all I do now.
He did point me to the vioce control which works quite well to be fair, but especially controlling the map with iDrive is just plain obnoxious.
Can't wait to get rid of the damn thing. Hope they sorted the handling better in the 430 because a heavier v6 lump up front sure wont improve things much other than the noise, unless they improve the front end massively.
The whole experience though just serves to remind me just what a dinosaur this BMW is to frankly any Tesla.
Because very few would pay for it if it was priced as an option.
On the Tesla though, the uptick on paying for AP for current owners who have already used it, is very very high (my guess). And that should tell you everything you need to know, if AP is worth it or not.
This is one of the aspects of pricing where I find Mercedes approach to be somewhat more 'honest' than Tesla's...
Both companies have decided to fit the hardware to all vehicles regardless, but only Tesla charges you extra to use what you've already bought with the vehicle...
I've never really understood the logic Tesla are using as I agree, I'm sure the vast majority select the AP option, after all, I can't imagine that many decide on Tesla due to their outstanding QC or their luxurious interior design skills
I just find it somewhat disingenuous to state that all cars come with 'full self-drive hardware', then charge an extra fee to let you use it, or a part of it at least...
d21mike
Active Member
Are you sure about the price? My 2016 Mercedes GLC offered Driver Assist Features as an option for almost $3000 but I could not find it on the model with Sports Package and m wife did not care about it so we did not get it. But pretty sure it did not include all of the features of my Tesla Model S. And later when I looked at the 2017 Mercedes E Class it was only included in the "Option 3" (not sure exactly the option) but it was the most expensive. Definitely not include for FREE in the base model. But you are talking about the 2019 Model which is it already out? Can you buy it now?
EDIT: Just read this: If true the "Option" can be pretty expensive.
Meanwhile, Mercedes has gone cherry-picking through the S-Class luxury sedan, to borrow some semi-autonomous driving talents for its new entry-level car. The Driving Assistance package will be an option, and include Active Distance Assist DISTRONIC that can automatically adjust the speed of the adaptive cruise control depending on when bends, junctions, and roundabouts are approaching. Active Lane Change Assist is also included, letting the 2019 A-Class change lane itself when you tap the stalk.
2019 Mercedes-Benz A-Class makes semi-autonomous mainstream
thegruf
Active Member
This is one of the aspects of pricing where I find Mercedes approach to be somewhat more 'honest' than Tesla's...
Both companies have decided to fit the hardware to all vehicles regardless, but only Tesla charges you extra to use what you've already bought with the vehicle...
I've never really understood the logic Tesla are using as I agree, I'm sure the vast majority select the AP option, after all, I can't imagine that many decide on Tesla due to their outstanding QC or their luxurious interior design skills
I just find it somewhat disingenuous to state that all cars come with 'full self-drive hardware', then charge an extra fee to let you use it, or a part of it at least...
Calling Tesla dishonest? I really don't accept that.
Enabling features with licence codes or the equivalent is an extremely common practice whether you understand the logic or not.
The hardware costs are very low. Tesla have calculated that the cost to manufacture/stock/distribute a multitude of variants is more expensive than just including the hardware as standard. It also has other benefits - owners can pay to upgrade later if they wish, and Tesla can also enable features on CPO cars to enhance value for greater revenue.
Perhaps you would prefer that Tesla removed it as an option altogether, and just added the cost to the car whether buyers wanted it or not?
But then I guess you would complain about paying for stuff you don't want.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
The Drive didn't think they were identical:
Drive Pilot: The only good thing about Drive Pilot is that your Mercedes will protect you from it. Did I trust it? Only at a crawl. Did I understand it? I don’t understand how Mercedes-Benz could release this to the public. I hated literally everything about it. It drove like a drunk ten year old, fighting for the wheel with a drunk fourteen year old. It was, in most conditions, dangerous.
Autopilot: I loved it. A few hours in and one begins to learn a dance between looking out the window, looking at the display and using the stalk to manage speed. Once mastered, the pedals become largely unnecessary. It drives like a very good second year teenage license holder who really wants impress, and is getting better all the time.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I've come across that "not in control" thing with several people now (now Tesla related, in fact any folk with, e.g. TACC or even just plain Cruise Control.
I wonder what the answer is to getting over that? My tack is that AP might save their life ... but they must remember to be vigilant at all times and not, for example, get suckered into thinking that its SO good that they can do something else such as Texting, because that too can csst a life.
I think it's a matter of confidence and familiarity with the technology. These systems are still very much in their infancy and not really mainstream yet. Simple passive cruise control has obviously been around for much longer and even that is still often an upgrade option in most cars today and only relatively recently included as standard in most high end models. Adaptive cruise control is almost always a paid option even on premium cars. It will be a long time yet before the equivalent of Tesla AP is commonplace in an average new car, so most drivers will be unfamiliar with the benefits and limitations of a semi-autonomous car. For example when I test drove a Tesla I hardly used AP (just a very quick test on a dual carriageway) because it was something I had never seen before. Only once I took delivery of my own car did I start to learn how to use AP effectively and even a couple of months later I still feel like I'm on a learning curve with it. It's certainly not something you can just flip on and sit back (at least if you don't want to die!) and so the benefits are not instantly obvious - at first I was less relaxed driving with AP than simply driving myself as I have for the last 33 years, but now I'm much more confident in the system and its limitations and feel slightly more relaxed than driving manually in certain situations. TACC in particular has really reduced the effort in simply following a line of traffic and I now often flip between TACC and AP2 depending on the road. In fact the only time I now drive in full manual is when on empty twisty B-roads, which is the only type of road that's actually fun to drive yourself anyway! Everywhere else I'm either using TACC to follow behind something or AP2 if the road is suitable. I have to say the latest version of AP2 is pretty slick and I'm starting to use it more and more often as I gain confidence.
12Pack
Member
I think the "The Drive" article got it right. Where AP does better than other such systems is in showing you clearly what the car sees. Driving along using AP while glancing at the screen certainly improves my confidence, and sense of the car's capabilities. I would imagine not having this (or not understanding what the Tesla screen is showing) can make the whole idea of having the car "drive itself" a lot more stressful.
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