Autosteer is not beta, very much alpha

[Amyshubby]

Even if I hadn't read the manual, I can't imagine I would ever trust any car on autosteer in a construction zone.

I've only had the car for two weeks so others (who seem to love the feature) can give better real world replies but I do a lot of highway driving (at least two hours a day) and use ACC all the time. I like controlling the steering so I usually steer. If I want to take a break and relax (about 10 minutes or so per trip) I turn on autosteer. No issues so far.

 

[Phlier]

Maybe it’s just me being an old fogey, but IMO, you should heed the User Manual’s warning, and NOT use AP in a construction zone. Some of the more complicated construction zones get confusing even if you’re hand driving. But asking the car to navigate even an easy construction zone is just asking for damage, injury, or death. AP is NOT ready for construction zones, and you are unduly putting the lives of yourself and others at risk by doing so.

Use the features on your car as the manual states. And do so while using good judgment.

@AlanSubie4Life Curious as to what you disagree with?

 

[Asterix187]

I know exactly what I am saying. I am, after all, a systems engineer. This autosteer software is not ready to leave Tesla - yet.

Of course, IMHO.

Snap!

However, your topic said it’s not beta, which it is. Whether it should have been released to beta is a different point!

 

[Rockster]

OP, please stop using AP. Period.

I have to vehemently disagree with you. Having driven tens of thousands of miles on both AP1 and AP2 cars it is a much more relaxing way to drive. One very quickly learns the limitations and can easily foresee situations where AP might have trouble. Having driven cross country this summer, over 10,000 miles including Atlanta, going through dozens of construction zones, I can tell you there is always plenty of warning, at least a mile and in most cases two or more.

This. I have over 50k miles driven on AP. It’s definitely less stressful.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

@AlanSubie4Life Curious as to what you disagree with?

I apparently have fat fingers. Also new iOS seems to have some weird lagginess for me. No disagreement!

 

[Phlier]

I apparently have fat fingers. Also new iOS seems to have some weird lagginess for me. No disagreement!

Same here. I keep fat fingering the buttons using FireFox in iOS 13. A lot of guys have been getting multiple alerts regarding post ratings from me for the past few days.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Autosteer along with TACC works pretty damned good. I'm not a SW engineer, but I don't even consider it in beta - more along the lines of in a constant state of refinement.

Using AP has eliminated a lot of stress in my life - my morning commute and driving in traffic is SO much better for me now. I didn't have unrealistic expectations of what it could do: I didn't think I could push a button and forget about the car and traffic completely.

 

[Ciaopec]

RTFM is fine - but lets think about this one - how much warning do you really get before you get into a construction zone? quarter mile, tops. With that in mind, at 60 mph, you have 15 seconds to get out of it.

> Pretty sure in most cases there are big orange diamond signs that say construction zone ahead and will give you the number of miles ahead. Trying to remember when a construction zone popped up less than a quarter mile out. Generally they tell you when road work is done as well.

But my broader point is that the systems are not failing to safety. You cannot, as a responsible maker of a lethal machine, just say 'but it is in the manual'. If the use of this in a construction zone can reasonably result in a fatal crash, then autosteer should never be so easy to engage and should automatically disengage at slower speeds - say below 45. Any active construction zone will have slow moving traffic.

> Reread post 2. If you don't read the manual it is not Tesla's fault. Does Tesla do any more or less than other manufacturers of "lethal machines?

Again, this is one persons opinion and one person's lesson learned, but a warning buried in a user manual 193 pages long is not helpful when the product is a car. The tesla is being sold as a miracle. A fantastic futuristic toy.

> Never seen Tesla promoted as a miracle. It's a great vehicle with some really great systems. But the user has to understand the systems and what they can/cannot do and how they operate.

What I am realizing is - and this is my own fault for taking so long - it is a hunk of metal that is moving at a mile a minute for the most part among other hunks of metal moving at similar speeds. There is no value add from autosteer since I cannot relax my vigilance one iota.

> On that note, don't know how long you have owned the car but you have only posted since Oct 3. It's obviously too early to appreciate the value added from auto steer. I have a different approach to systems and driving and notes, warning, and cautions (40 year military/civilian aviation). Until I was confident I knew and understood the machine I didn't rely on the automation. And I became operationally familiar in no stress situations. But I've used mine for over 3 years and over 115000 miles and auto steer is invaluable to me. I know when I can relax and when I need to be more vigilant or when I just need to steer myself. Wouldn't have it any other way.


Not sure Tesla and its automation is for you. Most people cannot even fathom the use of cruise control on their cars because they don't read the manual. This automation is far beyond that and requires the reading of the manual. It also requires common sense.

 

[DopeGhoti]

With that in mind, at 60 mph, you have 15 seconds to get out of it.

You say that as though fifteen seconds is somehow an unbearably close shave. Given that you are supposed to be attentive with your hand literally on the wheel at all times, it should take zero seconds to disengage Autosteer at your whim, either by wresting control if the car incorrectly tries to steer away from you, by tapping the brake, or by flipping the right lever up to the first detent.

 

[Hkbruin]

You say that as though fifteen seconds is somehow an unbearably close shave. Given that you are supposed to be attentive with your hand literally on the wheel at all times, it should take zero seconds to disengage Autosteer at your whim, either by wresting control if the car incorrectly tries to steer away from you, by tapping the brake, or by flipping the right lever up to the first detent.

THIS..

OP, auto steer isn’t meant for you to relax and do other things while you are using that driver aid. If you count out 15 seconds, that’s plenty of time to stop your car or make some kind of rational human decision to react to your environment.
I understand your perspective as a software engineer but it seems that you ASSUME autosteer to function in a particular way that’s supposed to be close to “perfect”.

I’ve driven 35k miles in the last year with my model 3 and about 70% of my commute Is AP. My personal rule of thumb: only on the freeway.

 

[camalaio]

RTFM is fine - but lets think about this one - how much warning do you really get before you get into a construction zone? quarter mile, tops. With that in mind, at 60 mph, you have 15 seconds to get out of it.

15 whole seconds? Count that out. Holy carp, @ManacledGerm, I really hope you can react to a construction zone in 15 seconds as a driver. You literally only need to bump the stalk up or tap the brake. What would you do if AP was not engaged...?

... I am not just another driver either - I also drive emergency vehicles such as ambulances and fire trucks. If it can fool me into a sense of overconfidence by making it ridiculously easy to get into trouble ....

Dear goodness me.

Let me be clear. I'm no fan of AP's current state. My post history will say so. But damn, would you also use cruise control through a construction zone? This is Autosteer and Adaptive Cruise you have enabled, not obstacle-avoidance flagger-obeying conflict-resolution-brain autonomy. Jeez, man. This is so alarming I'm at a loss.

Again, let me be clear, AP is a mess especially on how people perceive its capabilities on the surface. Ask anyone here how many times they get asked "So does it drive you to work!?". But I don't understand as a driver in an exceptional situation (construction, bad weather, whatever it may be) how the reaction can be "yeah let's let the thing do the thing, I trust this 100%".

Dang.

 

[holmgang]

Let me be clear. I'm no fan of AP's current state. My post history will say so. But damn, would you also use cruise control through a construction zone? This is Autosteer and Adaptive Cruise you have enabled, not obstacle-avoidance flagger-obeying conflict-resolution-brain autonomy. Jeez, man. This is so alarming I'm at a loss.

It's irresponsible, but also marketing genius, that Tesla branded its system Autopilot. There's so much more crazed hype behind Tesla system relative to actual capabilities, and the nomenclature has no small role in that. Marketing is powerful stuff.

 

[Lunares]

I know exactly what I am saying. I am, after all, a systems engineer. This autosteer software is not ready to leave Tesla - yet.

Of course, IMHO.

As a fellow systems engineer, you apparently have no idea what you are talking about or how these kinds of things work.

If you arent capable of understanding basic ConOps from a deployable system and it's use cases then why even be in that job?

 

[DopeGhoti]

It's irresponsible, but also marketing genius, that Tesla branded its system Autopilot.

IMO, it's a fair analogy. In an aircraft, the autopilot system maintains straight-and-level flight at a specified bearing and altitude in nominal flight conditions. In a Tesla, Autosteer+TACC (i. e. Autopilot) does the on-the-road equivalent: it maintains speed and keeps the car in the current lane in nominal road conditions.

 

[Paddy3101]

IMO, it's a fair analogy. In an aircraft, the autopilot system maintains straight-and-level flight at a specified bearing and altitude in nominal flight conditions. In a Tesla, Autosteer+TACC (i. e. Autopilot) does the on-the-road equivalent: it maintains speed and keeps the car in the current lane in nominal road conditions.

And with NOA, you get the equivalent of waypoints, where the car will change onto a different track/road, under a limited set of conditions.
Same for autopilot on a ship/boat.

i.e. Autopilot - Wikipedia

"An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without constant manual control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the vehicle. This allows them to focus on broader aspects of operations such as monitoring the trajectory, weather and systems."

 

[holmgang]

IMO, it's a fair analogy. In an aircraft, the autopilot system maintains straight-and-level flight at a specified bearing and altitude in nominal flight conditions. In a Tesla, Autosteer+TACC (i. e. Autopilot) does the on-the-road equivalent: it maintains speed and keeps the car in the current lane in nominal road conditions.

I was instructed this in flying lessons, but I don't think the general public knows this nuance. And, of course, some AP systems can land the aircraft as well....