Accepted 2019.16.1 today. In Norway. Got NoA. But have not driven the car yet.
I'm hoping Tesla can train the NN to drive in curves well enough to avoid this limitation.
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AutoSteer nerfed in EU
- Thread starter emmz0r
- Start date
Accepted 2019.16.1 today. In Norway. Got NoA. But have not driven the car yet.
I'm hoping Tesla can train the NN to drive in curves well enough to avoid this limitation.
A friend of mine started a petition action to counter these absurd regulations: Please sign!
Stop crippling Tesla Autopilot in Europe
Stop crippling Tesla Autopilot in Europe
deonb
Active Member
I think you either misread the limit or haven't seen Summon in action. The acceleration limit is 3 meters/second squared. Not 3 meters/minute...
deonb
Active Member
That doesn't smell right - that would imply 400 meters needed to complete a 90 degree turn at 60kph.
Putting that into perspective - the circumference of a lap track around a rugby field is 400m - you can certainly drive around that at 60kph and that is 360 degrees, not just 90.
The WA state turn radius is 250ft minimum, 350ft desirable, which is 478m minimum/670m desirable circumference. Or 119m to 167m traveled for a 90 degree turn - which sounds more correct to me.
Torque sensor is on the steering (wheel) shaft, not based on power steering assist force required. It only measures user input force.
Found an interesting study that somewhat contradicts my and UltimateX's initial thinking that 3m/s^2 was reasonably generous (and hence my reason for looking for an alternate explanation which mongo invalidated)...
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ddns/2015/494130/
I'll copy a few select sentences the first from the introduction, the remaining from the conclusion:
"Therefore, Tan conducted an experiment wherein male and female subjects of various ages were driven around three horizontal curves at a test track and asked to indicate when they felt uncomfortable. The 10%, 50%, and 90% uncomfortable lateral acceleration values were then determined [5]."
"The lateral accelerations of highways with six lanes were less than 3.5 m/s^2, and most were less than 1.8 m/s^2."
"However, in a mountainous area, an increasing number of lateral accelerations exceeded the comfort limit, and a small part of the data exceeded the medium comfort limit (3.6 m/s^2)."
"With a design speed of 30 km/h in a mountain area, a large proportion of the lateral accelerations exceeded the discomfort limit (5 m/s^2)."
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ddns/2015/494130/
I'll copy a few select sentences the first from the introduction, the remaining from the conclusion:
"Therefore, Tan conducted an experiment wherein male and female subjects of various ages were driven around three horizontal curves at a test track and asked to indicate when they felt uncomfortable. The 10%, 50%, and 90% uncomfortable lateral acceleration values were then determined [5]."
"The lateral accelerations of highways with six lanes were less than 3.5 m/s^2, and most were less than 1.8 m/s^2."
"However, in a mountainous area, an increasing number of lateral accelerations exceeded the comfort limit, and a small part of the data exceeded the medium comfort limit (3.6 m/s^2)."
"With a design speed of 30 km/h in a mountain area, a large proportion of the lateral accelerations exceeded the discomfort limit (5 m/s^2)."
Eno Deb
Active Member
Who exactly are you petitioning though? From what I can tell this is not EU law, so I'm not sure how binding this regulation actually is. Could it be that Tesla is just adopting it voluntarily to avoid the expense of getting approval in each country individually?
Also, the UN commission that released this regulation (UN/ECE) actually has many non-EU members, including the US:
Member States and Member States Representatives
That’s not what I’m talking about. It’s page 20:
”5.6.1.2.7. The specified maximum RCP operating range shall not exceed 6 m.”
RCP is Remote Controlled Parking. Sounds like Enhanced Summon to me.
the safe speed is calculated from road curvature. So if that is not on the map or is incorrect - it then does the vision estimated curvature that's kind of late.
It does seem like the EU is the only one to implement these UN regulations at the moment, because the changes Tesla has made line up with them so well. But indeed I’ve seen no one find the actual EU directives yet.
The map does look exactly correct in those instances, so that’s why I’m wondering...
there's a tool to check those values (on old maps) in that old thread. do give it a try and see what's in the data
I think the regulation results in reasonsble turnrates which are within an acceptable comfort range for average riders.
As often the EU regulates everything which we would call common sense, complicating everything with misguided good Intention to create an standard.
I tried this update on some windy UK roads this afternoon. On some tighter curves the IC popped up an “Autopilot limited” message and the car decelerated but it did make the turns.
I can’t quantify with numbers but my impression is the car only exceeded the steering limit when it entered curves at an inappropriate speed.
This limit isn’t really an issue in practice at the moment imo.
I can’t quantify with numbers but my impression is the car only exceeded the steering limit when it entered curves at an inappropriate speed.
This limit isn’t really an issue in practice at the moment imo.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
It makes sense to slowdown and turn if that's what regulation says.
As it is I find AP/FSD aggressive - I hope they have modes for that. I want AP/FSD to be in chill mode. BTW, does the mode I set dictate how AP/FSD behaves ?
Yes. Ie. when I let it try to cross a roundabout it's less agressive in chill mode.
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