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Autosteer - Nervewracking!

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by HumbleDriver, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. HumbleDriver

    HumbleDriver Member

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    Hi

    90D AP2 owner here. i'm having trouble reconciling my unabashed affection for the car + admiration for Tesla with performance of Autosteer. Since the latest update I've driving with it on (as much as possible) in a fairly lengthy stretch of CT-15 at around 60 - a parkway crossing Southern CT.

    Firstly, a word on TACC - now this is a solid feature. It's been working beautifully for me, and I have it on all the time now. It seems to be a genuine 'stress reducing' feature. Bravo Tesla for this.

    Autosteer is a completely different animal. From a performance point of view it's all over the map - literally; veering to the right when coming out of a left hand curve, getting way too close to other vehicles etc. I find myself repeatedly disengaging which entails a pretty forceful yank of the wheel. In its current state, I would never, ever drive with this enabled with wife+kids in car. All in all, a pretty stressful time.

    From my experience so far, I personally question the wisdom of putting something out SO flawed. Yes, I know it's beta, but even betas should meet certain standards of performance.
     
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  2. Hans Allis

    Hans Allis Member

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    That's pretty far off from my experience, but it might have to do with the type of roads you're driving on as well. There're quite a few straight stretches on the highway here and Autosteer really seems to work just fine in those cases. Didn't get to try that many twists and turns yet, but for those long stretches I'm already really enjoying the current implementation.
     
  3. OBX John

    OBX John Autonomous Driving Enthusiast

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    In a way it makes sense to train drivers with a limited system - the only danger from autosteer is driver overconfidence. I dare say it's not a problem for current HW2 drivers.

    How was the paint quality of the lane markers? I've found huge differences in curve performance when lanes are clearly marked, and negative camber seems to throw it off as well.

    I won't take my hands off the wheel in most curves, and I'm always ready to take over. It's primary useful for long boring straight roads.
     
  4. HumbleDriver

    HumbleDriver Member

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    OBX John - good point there, though perhaps slightly perverse!

    Lane markings were absolutely fine ( i do find it mystifying how AS is not able to hold the lanes better actually). The road itself is certainly not long/flat - there are few turns and a few shallow ups and downs but it's not really challenging in any way. I will give it a try on a long and boring stretch of an Interstate when i get a chance.

    Funnily enough, I took an AP1 drive out last year and engaged auto pilot on the same stretch - also a horrible experience. Obviously didn't put me off getting the car but the Tesla guy with me said ("I've never seen it operate that way" and "A software update coming in December will fix that" :) )
     
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  5. OBX John

    OBX John Autonomous Driving Enthusiast

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    It is weird what throws autosteer off sometimes. The only "good" experience I've had with curves was on a nicely banked, well marked road where the fog line had raised reflective markers as well, so that's where my line marking theory comes from. And from seeing the system struggle even on a straight road on a rainy day on a newly paved and thus slick and shiny when wet surface.

    I can't wait to test it out on our upcoming Spring Break road trip - I've not had any highway time with the system yet, just local roads at 35. It's going to be interesting to see if the system inspires any confidence on I-95 and I-64 with lots of traffic around.
     
  6. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    I drove an AP1 loaner two weeks ago, and compared to the "8.1" AP2, AP1 was much better.

    AP2 is making too many minor steering corrections, has challenges with traffic barriers close to the lane markers, and has a tendency to ride to close to the right lane lines.

    While TACC seems to work well, I've had some "false positives" with abrupt breaking when it incorrectly believes there are obstacles in front of the car - slowing down quickly and then resuming the set speed.

    I have much more confidence in TACC at this point, and expect we'll continue to see AP2 improve over the next few releases - achiever parity with AP1, and when Tesla turns on all 4 of the EAP cameras, it should perform better than AP1.

    For now, we have AP2 - and using it for AutoSteer feels like monitoring a student driver, ready to take back control at any time...
     
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  7. eschummer

    eschummer Member

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    Well, I have an AP1 car, and my auto steer has gotten much worse with the latest update as well. As noted, many small corrections, often in the wrong direction. I rarely have it enabled now. TACC has also gotten worse for me. It now leaves too much space the car in front, thus inviting people from the next lane to cut in in front. This leads to the usual near panic response from the car, engaging brakes much harder than needed, leading to a large gap to the car in front, leading to....etc. I also find myself disengaging TACC now quite often.

    Perhaps the next update will get us back closer to the previous version, which, for me anyway, was working quite well on both fronts...
     
  8. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    I've just done two 800 mile trips using AP1 on freeways most of the time, as a point of reference. autosteering worked very well.
     
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  9. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Tesla should have remained partners with Mobileye
     
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  10. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    OP: is CT-15 Merritt Parkway? A freeway with no shoulder on either sides?

    I would never be comfortable trying AP1 on that narrow lanes, windy road with no shoulder.
     
  11. ScottChes

    ScottChes Member

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    I just finished a road trip. I also found autosteer to be unreliable and not really usable. The way up was in rain but the way back was sunny and clear. It favored the inside of turns and often liked to get too close to other cars. On the other hand, TACC worked great and was improved over the previous version.
     
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  12. mitchellh3

    mitchellh3 Member

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    After about ~200 miles with 17.11.3 on highways I have to say that it works pretty well, but still requires a LOT of attention. I'm not trying to not pay attention by any means, but I feel like every curve I'm not sure if it's going to take it smoothly or get too close to the lane line or [much more rarely] go over it a bit. When cars in other lanes in a curve are near the lane themselves, it can make for a pretty sketchy experience.

    I think they have a lot to improve on on curves.

    But other than a few sharper curves, I successfully used Autosteer today for 50 miles on an LA highway without issue at 70+ mph. I have no doubt it'll get there.
     
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  13. BlindBanana

    BlindBanana Member

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    I complete agree! I have used autosteer as much as possible on my daily 60-120 minute commute. In my experience, it performs extremely well in stop-and-go traffic and relatively straight sections at higher speeds (up to 80mph) but struggles at higher speed around curves. The vehicle tends to veer into adjacent lanes in curves at higher speeds, sometimes coming dangerously close to others and requiring me to take over. For some reason, it seems as though curves to the left are especially problematic. I would be curious why that may be. Is this something that can only be corrected via an update or does the vehicle learn that it went over the line and correct itself in the future (in this past week, it has always struggled with the same curves - no apparent improvement)?

    Overall, I am optimistic that it will improve in the future and find that even though I still have to pay a lot of attention, driving in traffic using autosteer makes the commute seem less annoying and stressful. Time will tell if this is because my car is still brand new (7 days, 554 miles) and the excitement makes the commute more pleasant, or if it is due to the vehicle's autosteer feature.
     
  14. aleagle

    aleagle Member

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    I agree that the car gives me pause every once in a while coming out of a turn, but, I am confident that the car will behave safely, and thus far it has - and the thrill!
     
  15. timvracer

    timvracer Member

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    I am with several of you, I use AS every day on my commute, and it is wonderful. However, there are 2 sections that I know the car will fail, one is a construction zone where the lanes become ambiguous. Otherwise, stop and go, and 80mph stretches with curves both directions, the car does well.

    The only beef I have is that I prefer to be considerate to lane splitting motorcycles, and AS doesn't know how to do that. So when traffic is going slow, I keep an eye in my side mirror for motorcycles coming up, and I will yank the wheel to the left to give them room, and then resume AS.
     
  16. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    timvracer: AP1 or 2?
     
  17. timvracer

    timvracer Member

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    AP2

     
  18. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    i suspect the different experiences people are having with AP are based on the roads they are driving on. i drive mostly on interstates which are well-marked and the car usually has no problem staying in the lane. Never once have i had to cancel autosteer to avoid an event.
     
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  19. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Got my AP2 for 1.5 months and I have been almost exclusively using it for over 2,000 miles.

    My driving has been mostly freeways and AP2 has worked very well for me with a few minor flaws that required my intervention such as when a merging pickup truck cut me off so tightly.

    It has handled curvy roads very well as long as I manually adjust the cruise stick to the posted signs.

    It works flawlessly in glaring sunrise and sunset conditions.

    Of course the system still needs improvements but because I have expected it to be flawed, it still beats manual driving and I am very happy with it.
     
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  20. JHuberman

    JHuberman Member

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    I am using 17.17.4, and I have found it much improved over the previous versions.

    17.17.4 is now smooth on limited access highways - the curves and changing lanes is smoother and it doesn't get too close to other cars as often. Exits still need big improvements. It doesn't slow down for the curves or hold the center of the lane.

    Local divided highways that aren't limited access are also pretty good. It doesn't limit the speed to 5mph over the speed limit, but it won't change lanes under any circumstances. Slowing down when approaching a stopped car is also much better. It doesn't rush up and then slam on the brakes like it used to.

    Local single lane roads are pretty scarey. The one I was driving for this report had excellent lane markings with new paint for the
    centerline and shoulder. It had numerous smooth turns and lots of small hills. Topping hills frequently resulted in going right to the edge of the road and sometimes on to the shoulder, especially if the road was curving as it topped the hill. I found that 5 mph over the speed limit or 45 mph on unmarked roads was enforced by the software. 45 mph is way fast enough on these roads and requires maximum vigilance to stay safe.

    I find that when I let the car drive on interstates where it is quite good I am looking around much more than when I am steering to stay in the lane. This improves my situational awareness and I think my safety as well since both the car and I are on the lookout for problems. The car is watching the immediate environment and I'm on the lookout for more distant issues that may impact safety.

    I am enjoying the updates. It is fun being on the bleeding edge of autonomous driving. Staying alert, anticipating when a problem may occur, and being ready to take over in a second make long
    familiar drives much more interesting. The jolt of adrenaline when I take over at the last second is better than coffee for keeping me awake.

     
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