Autosteer problem with "Super Street" U-turn Lane

[RubinRA]

I had to do a sudden manual correction when driving through an intersection on Autosteer. It's on a 4-lane "Super Street"-style intersection, in which a signal allows traffic from the other direction to do a U-turn into the opposite lane. But the markings confused Autosteer (see illustration), and at 55 mph it suddenly veered me from the right lane into the left lane, and I had to manually jerk it back into the proper lane. Has anybody else encountered this? View media item 121045

 

[Candleflame]

who the hell designs such roads. This should be a roundabout lol.

 

[JulienW]

WOW, this is what happens when a traffic engineer designs on LSD.

 

[Mr. Burrito]

Why there will always be a steering wheel in a Tesla, in spite of Elon's 2-year promise.

 

[drift]

Why there will always be a steering wheel in a Tesla, in spite of Elon's 2-year promise.

Interesting that autosteer doesn't respond the way the OP would on a street that it's not to be used on. I also suspect that the person who designed this intersection doesn't drive.

 

[JasonR67]

When I saw that picture I thought. That looks like highway 55 in Holly Springs.

At that same interchange my car sees the I turn lane lines and tries to throw me to the right violently.

If you use Lane assist on hwy 55 hold on to the steering wheel firmly at every interchange through the entire Fuquay to Apex stretch.

I’ve heard they get video and data every time a driver takes control from autopilot. For a while I’d also bug report it. It might help if it was coming from more than one driver.

(My car is a White 3 with the “TSLA” plate)

 

[Knightshade]

So you're saying autosteer didn't work right on a road the owners manual tells you it's explicitly not intended to be used?

How surprising.

 

[RubinRA]

When I saw that picture I thought. That looks like highway 55 in Holly Springs.

At that same interchange my car sees the I turn lane lines and tries to throw me to the right violently.

If you use Lane assist on hwy 55 hold on to the steering wheel firmly at every interchange through the entire Fuquay to Apex stretch.

I’ve heard they get video and data every time a driver takes control from autopilot. For a while I’d also bug report it. It might help if it was coming from more than one driver.

(My car is a White 3 with the “TSLA” plate)

The Hwy 55 intersection is indeed where it happened! The photo is a similar one taken from the NC Dept. of Transportation website.

 

[JasonR67]

So you're saying autosteer didn't work right on a road the owners manual tells you it's explicitly not intended to be used?

How surprising.

From the manual: "Warning: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver."

It's a divided highway with limited access in that section. (No driveways, or other connections that aren't intersections).

IMHO: It is a problem with the lane markings,

 

[RubinRA]

So you're saying autosteer didn't work right on a road the owners manual tells you it's explicitly not intended to be used?

How surprising.

Oh, don’t be so self-righteous and smug. I’ve got a new car: I’m having fun trying it in various situations, and am reporting an interesting result. Having purchased FSD, I’m interested in what Tesla is going to have to overcome to make it succeed someday, and in what the limits of the current system are. I’m also hoping this observation will somehow get forwarded to the folks who are working on the program. All of us with FSD are beta-testers.

 

[afadeev]

I had to do a sudden manual correction when driving through an intersection on Autosteer. It's on a 4-lane "Super Street"-style intersection, in which a signal allows traffic from the other direction to do a U-turn into the opposite lane. But the markings confused Autosteer (see illustration), and at 55 mph it suddenly veered me from the right lane into the left lane, and I had to manually jerk it back into the proper lane.

Lets get real here - Autosteer (AS) works reasonably well as long as lane markings are clear, and follow predictable patterns.
The intersection depicted fails the second criteria, gloriously.

Generally speaking, when there is a break in lane markings (at intersections, or due to paint wear), or when a road splits (Y-intersections), AS will behave unpredictably. And the driver should be ready to take over with corrective inputs.

As others have pointed out, the designer of the intersection may have had mental issues.

So you're saying autosteer didn't work right on a road the owners manual tells you it's explicitly not intended to be used?

Don't be silly.
There is nothing wrong with the road. Except for the lane markings.

Manual has disclaimers for using AP/AS on ALL types of roads. If you follow the manual instructions to the letter, you would only be using AP/AS on deserted highways with zero other cars on them.

Has anybody else encountered this?

I've been running into similar scenarios, daily, for more than a year now:

• Y-intersections (road splits into two, driver knows which way to go, AP/AS makes a random selection choice)
• At intersections that happen to crest a hill (camera/radar can't see over the hill, and AP/AS jerks the car into a random direction, occasionally off the road).

This is all part of learning to live with AP/AS.
There are ares where it works reasonably well, and there are scenarios where it fails, repeatedly.

 

[Sofos]

Mine does it all the time whenever there is a reverse Y intersection.
As a matter of fact it even ignores and almost hits the car that's merging from the left. E
time I have to intervene and every time I send a report for the heck of it.

 

[sduck]

Wait, that's in North Carolina? I thought they figured out how lousy that kind of design is in New Jersey decades ago.

 

[Jenremoved]

Auto steer isn’t supposed to be used where there is the possibility of cross traffic. This is a user error situation, not an auto steer error.

 

[Adopado]

I had to do a sudden manual correction when driving through an intersection on Autosteer. It's on a 4-lane "Super Street"-style intersection, in which a signal allows traffic from the other direction to do a U-turn into the opposite lane. But the markings confused Autosteer (see illustration), and at 55 mph it suddenly veered me from the right lane into the left lane, and I had to manually jerk it back into the proper lane. Has anybody else encountered this? View media item 121045

Wow, I've never seen anything like that before ... they should make it a tourist attraction. I find that Autopilot throws up its hands in much more straightforward scenarios than that. I got a headache just trying to understand what was going on in that picture!

 

[Salted]

That intersection is so strange, and with the benefits of daylight, good weather, and an overhead picture. What could go wrong?

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

What would you have to do if the light turned red? Autosteer is not currently for use on road with traffic signals? Plus that’s why it’s called ‘beta’

 

[Chisale]

Correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of this type of turnaround is because there is a cross street nearby. Most likely two, one in each direction, above the pic and below. In order to cut down on left turns and going straight on those side streets, traffic is routed onto the main street at which point it has to make a U-turn to get back to where they were going. If so, these actually work very well and keep traffic moving on the main road more quickly, despite additional stop lights (timing is key). It also cuts down on dangerous left turns. This one doesn't look like it's particularly well marked and I wouldn't expect Autosteer to work very well here at all.

 

[Knightshade]

Don't be silly.
There is nothing wrong with the road. Except for the lane markings.

And the fact it's explicitly not the type of road AS is intended to be used on.

But I know you never let documented facts from the user manual get in your way

Oh, don’t be so self-righteous and smug. I’ve got a new car:

Then you should probably read the manual. Especially the parts on systems and tech new to you.

That's not smug, that's basic safety and common sense.

I’m having fun trying it in various situations, and am reporting an interesting result.

I don't really find "did not work right in a place it's explicitly not intended to work right" super interesting.

YMMV I guess.

Having purchased FSD, I’m interested in what Tesla is going to have to overcome to make it succeed someday

The HW3/FSD code base isn't running on the car yet.

Trying to draw any conclusions about its abilities and behavior from the legacy 2.x code it's running now is pointless.

I’m also hoping this observation will somehow get forwarded to the folks who are working on the program.

It won't.

Nor would it help- since again it's an entirely different code base that will be in use to actually handle situations like yours.

From the manual: "Warning: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver."

It's a divided highway with limited access in that section.

No, it's not.

There's a stop-light at that intersection- it's clearly visible in the photo. (And intersections != limited access)

But even without the intersection- Autosteer doesn't do stop lights at all.

(On a related note-federal guidelines on controlled access freeways require free-flowing traffic with all cross-traffic relegated to under and over passes so there's no conflicts with the main line of traffic that need to be regulated by traffic control devices like stop signs or stop lights)



A u-turn intersection is not an on/off ramp- because it has cars comingacross traffic to complete the U-turn.

A situation explicitly not supported by AS.



Again the explicit assumption of AS is that all traffic is free-flowing in the same direction you are going...

Cross traffic isn't a thing it understands, and isn't intended to understand- so any road situation marked for any sort of cross traffic may well cause it issues since it's not intended to work there in the first place.

Just like this example

 

[WarEagleX]

Not to be flippant, but autopilot follows lane markings. With that in mind, I'm curious as to what you thought that it was going to do in this case?