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Autosteer put me in the penalty box?

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by mallman, Jan 13, 2017.

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  1. mallman

    mallman New Member

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    So, I'm on Autosteer on the freeway, and when I had some room ahead I push the accelerator and I hit 90mph. "Ping", the car beeps and goes off Autosteer with the appropriate warning to take control of the car. Fair enough, they don't want to steer at 90mph+, I get it.

    But then I dropped below 90, and when I attempt to re-engage Autosteer, it won't accept it, and I get the message "Autosteer unavailable for the rest of this drive. Driver exceed Autopilot Max Speed."

    What the ??? They put me in the penalty box for the rest of the trip? Lest we forget, Tesla is touting Autosteer as a safety improvement (which I actually believe it is). So in essence they are taking away a safety feature as retribution for speeding? Why not re-open it again at a safe speed? This can only be punitive. What is next, turning off the air bags?



     
  2. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Good to know. Other than it not being documented, this doesn't upset me or anything. If you push it past ninety, you should take it off AP first so you have full control.
     
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  3. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    This behavior started in 2.50.114, and a couple folks have pointed it out. Too bad it wasn't officially documented, because yeah, it can catch you by surprise like what happened.

    Almost happened to my co-driver today on my SF to Vegas trip... He was going 75 in a 70 and tried to pass an erratically driving truck. Speed shot to 85 in almost no time, and I had to warn him that he should disengage AP now before getting into the penalty box.
     
  4. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    There has been a lot of debate about this in other threads. Personally I think this is ridiculous. Sure, disengage at 90, but re-engage below 90.

    Musk has talked about how autosteer could save lives in the case of an incapacitated driver. Well, not if the driver was in the penalty box before becoming incapacitated.

    Just silly!
     
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  5. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    What firmware version are you on?

    It's known issue without any legit reason for it behaving that way.

    The hope is that Tesla will fix it in an update so I'm curious if it's in the latest update.
     
  6. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    OP don't try to be dramatic.

    AP increases safety only under a responsible driver. For someone trying to push the car above 90 with AP is irresponsible. So quite rightly AP thinks you are drunk.
     
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  7. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    That's ridiculous. Going over 90mph does not mean you are drunk and doesn't even necessarily mean you are driving unsafely. I have passed cars before on two lane roads and gotten up to 90 because it happens extremely quickly and sometimes you need to get around cars as fast as you can in order to safely pass them.

    If AP actually thinks the driver is drunk, or otherwise not able to operate the car safely, it should slow the car and pull off the side of the road and disable driving completely. It should definitely not hand control of the car back over to the drunk driver. It could never make that determination though.
     
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  8. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Yes that update is coming in the next release.
     
  9. JenniferQ

    JenniferQ Supporting Member

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    Fwiw, many, many average speeds here in CA on the freeway seem to be 85! I'm from Texas originally, and it's really fast here! So 90 is really nothing. And these cars get to 90 so fast. I did not know about this 'penalty box' thing but will be sure to turn off AP if that's the case.
     
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  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Have to say, that is a really stupid feature.
     
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  11. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Oh puuleese. Tesla is not saying don't drive above 90. Drive at 150 for all they care.

    Tesla is reminding that you don't push AP to its limits and beyond. The camera does not get enough frames per second for the software to make a safe decision to maintain the lane, at that speed.

    How hard is this to understand?
     
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  12. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    A few updates ago a lock out was triggered by not responding to the AP nags, if you didn't hold the steering wheel when prompted you'd be locked out of using the AP until the car was stopped, put into park and then back into D. maybe this speed lockout was either planned or an unintended bug.
    The AP system always disengaged when going over 90 mph but I've never been locked out for that reason, then again I haven't driven at that speed in a long time so I don't know exactly which update triggered this.
     
  13. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    No one is suggesting the car should continue on auto-steer over 90 MPH. We are all fine with autosteer disengaging at that speed.

    Our issue is that once the car is again travelling below 90 MPH, autosteer should be able to re-engage, allowing us to drive more safely. To "penalize" us because we exceeded 90 MPH with autosteer engaged, in such a way that our lives and others' lives are put at risk should we become incapacitated for some reason, is just silly.

    To use your own words, "How hard is this to understand?"
     
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  14. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Let me see if understand this convoluted logic.

    What are you saying is, in any situation or at anytime when you cannot engage AP, you are putting your lives and other lives at risk.

    Wow. So every pre AP car is death trap. Any ICE car that does not have AP (which is every car) is a death trap.

    This argument is nonsensical.

    Tesla is trying hard to encourage responsible AP driving, without resorting to extremes and without running afoul of NHTSA. Shutting off AP (till you park) is a minor inconvenience precisely meant to discourage distracted driving and over speeding when using AP.

    If AP is so life saving function, then don't push AP beyond 90. if you end up doing it, no big deal. Simply take the exit, park and restart?
     
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  15. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    I never said anything of the sort.

    Elon Musk has touted autosteer as potentially life-saving, in that in the event a driver becomes incapacitated, the car will continue to drive and eventually slow down and stop. Keeping that capability from us, as a punitive action, makes absolutely no sense, and may result in lost lives that would not be lost otherwise.

    It's as simple as that.
     
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  16. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    I think elon said that cars driving themselves via autonomous controls will save lives, as of today no such car exists.
    simple as that
     
  17. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    So let me get this scenario straight:

    Someone pushes AP irresponsibly over 90. And then as a stroke of bad luck he gets incapacitated in the next few minutes - before even he could get a chance to pull over safely, press park and reengage AP. And then dies because evil Elon disabled AP.

    Oh Yeah. I can see that !!
    -:)
     
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  18. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    That's not what Musk said.

    This is not the quote I was looking for, but it does discredit your comment above about the reference being to self-driving cars.

    Elon Musk says that about ‘500,000 people would have been saved (last year) if Tesla’s Autopilot was universally available’

    From the article:

    --
    "Following the news of the fatal accident in a Tesla Model S on Autopilot, which happened in May but only came to light last week, Tesla CEO Elon Musk claims that about half of the approximately one million people who died in auto accidents last year would have been saved if the Tesla Autopilot was universally available.
    --

    The reference I was looking for, but did not easily find, is Musk talking about how the auto steer system would help in the case of an incapacitated driver.
     
  19. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

    Many people would simply continue driving on their own, as opposed to trying to find an exit or a safe place to pull over, when traveling at highway speeds.

    The bottom line is that the punitive part of the limitation is silly, and could, conceivably, cost lives. There is just no need for it.

    We paid for six-figure cars. We don't need to be punished when we use a feature beyond the feature's capability. The reminder is enough.
     
  20. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    Maybe they think it really isn't safe at 89 mph either? If I was using AP over 90 mph and got a warning and AP was temporarily shut down, the first thing I'd do is see how fast it WOULD work. Having to stop and park before you can try again prevents that behavior?
     
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