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Average KW/Mi

Geech72

Member
Mar 10, 2021
40
27
NC
I have about 6,500 miles on my 2021 LR MY and am averaging 280 Wh/mi. It’s generally believed that I have a 77.8 kWh battery pack so that would mean that my range is about 278 miles. This is more than enough range for me around town and the charging network is a great tool for traveling. Because of the range and network Tesla was the only option for me when purchasing an EV. Other companies are improving their offerings every day so soon there will be reasonable alternatives. For this reason the EPA needs to be better at range estimates, so that we can truly compare vehicles in the future. This vehicle was supposed to have 326 miles of range so I’m missing the EPA estimate by 15%. I know I know temp, tires, driving, style yada yada yada are all important, but what I don’t understand is the EPA estimate itself. Their tests show that the LR MY used 27kWh/100mi or 270 Wh/mi. With this energy consumption the vehicle would need an 88 kWh battery in order to travel 326 miles on a single charge. What am I missing to make the EPA’s math work?
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
3,834
3,918
Maryland
I have about 6,500 miles on my 2021 LR MY and am averaging 280 Wh/mi. It’s generally believed that I have a 77.8 kWh battery pack so that would mean that my range is about 278 miles. This is more than enough range for me around town and the charging network is a great tool for traveling. Because of the range and network Tesla was the only option for me when purchasing an EV. Other companies are improving their offerings every day so soon there will be reasonable alternatives. For this reason the EPA needs to be better at range estimates, so that we can truly compare vehicles in the future. This vehicle was supposed to have 326 miles of range so I’m missing the EPA estimate by 15%. I know I know temp, tires, driving, style yada yada yada are all important, but what I don’t understand is the EPA estimate itself. Their tests show that the LR MY used 27kWh/100mi or 270 Wh/mi. With this energy consumption the vehicle would need an 88 kWh battery in order to travel 326 miles on a single charge. What am I missing to make the EPA’s math work?
The EPA rules allow manufacturers to submit multiple sets of test data. Most manufacturers submit one set of simulated city driving test data and one set of simulated highway test data. Tesla submits additional additional sets of simulated city driving test data. Maximum speed 45 MPH, no HVAC. Talk about stacking the deck. Since Tesla does this for every Tesla model you can compare the EPA numbers for different Tesla vehicles but the EPA number is not useful when comparing Tesla EPA figures with non-Tesla EVs.
 

Geech72

Member
Mar 10, 2021
40
27
NC
The EPA rules allow manufacturers to submit multiple sets of test data. Most manufacturers submit one set of simulated city driving test data and one set of simulated highway test data. Tesla submits additional additional sets of simulated city driving test data. Maximum speed 45 MPH, no HVAC. Talk about stacking the deck. Since Tesla does this for every Tesla model you can compare the EPA numbers for different Tesla vehicles but the EPA number is not useful when comparing Tesla EPA figures with non-Tesla EVs.
I can see how the rules would make it easy for Tesla to manipulate the testing results, but that doesn’t appear to be the case here. All of what you said could be used to artificially lower the reported Wh/mi estimate. However, the EPA is telling me to expect to use 270Wh/mile, but with my battery pack size I would need to use < 239 Wh/mi in order achieve a range of 326 miles. EV manufacturers should be required to disclose the battery pack capacity. If the person responsible for validating range tests for the EPA had data that said a vehicle with a 75kWh battery uses 270 Wh/mi and has a range of 326 mile; well then it would be pretty easy for that person to see that the company submitting that data is full of crap.
 

mangrove79

New Member
Jun 29, 2021
3
2
Sarasota
I've had my MY LR 19" for almost 3 months, drove 3,600 mi, about half city half hwy. My avg wh/mi is sitting at 272 right now. Local driving yields typically 240-260 wh/mi, and hwy 280-320 depending on speed. On days that I don't need AC, I can get as low as 200 wh/mi for city driving. I'm a very conscious driver and will take extra care to be as fuel-efficient as possible, going back to my gas and hybrid days. That means no ludicrous acceleration, coasting to red lights, etc. At 200 wh/mi, I found my actual mileage driven is almost the same as the rated mileage reduction. At 250 wh/mi, actual is about 10% less than rated, and at 300, 20% or so.
 
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jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
842
654
Charleston
I can see how the rules would make it easy for Tesla to manipulate the testing results, but that doesn’t appear to be the case here. All of what you said could be used to artificially lower the reported Wh/mi estimate. However, the EPA is telling me to expect to use 270Wh/mile, but with my battery pack size I would need to use < 239 Wh/mi in order achieve a range of 326 miles. EV manufacturers should be required to disclose the battery pack capacity. If the person responsible for validating range tests for the EPA had data that said a vehicle with a 75kWh battery uses 270 Wh/mi and has a range of 326 mile; well then it would be pretty easy for that person to see that the company submitting that data is full of crap.
The discrepancy in Wh/mi is because the EPA reports gross wh/mi rather than net. Gross wh/mi is measured at the charger and is therefore inclusive of charging losses. That's why the numbers always seem to indicate more capacity would be needed than the battery can actually provide.
 

73Bruin

Member
Nov 7, 2020
239
143
Torrance, CA
This was on a roundtrip from the SF Bay Area to Anaheim with some local driving around there as well:
View attachment 694109
Most of the driving was highway at speeds of 70 or higher. This was with two people in the car and a moderate amount of luggage. About half the return trip had substantial headwind and I averaged 330 Wh/mi there reflected in the 290 Wh/mi above (the outbound leg was more like 270 Wh/mi).

All this in a 2021 MY LR AWD 20" OEM tires at 42 psi.
Depending upon the route you took (I am assuming Interstate 5),you probably also made 2 fairly steep climbs of 4100ft with probably several other climbs of 500 plus feet.
 
This was on a roundtrip from the SF Bay Area to Anaheim with some local driving around there as well:
View attachment 694109
Most of the driving was highway at speeds of 70 or higher. This was with two people in the car and a moderate amount of luggage. About half the return trip had substantial headwind and I averaged 330 Wh/mi there reflected in the 290 Wh/mi above (the outbound leg was more like 270 Wh/mi).

All this in a 2021 MY LR AWD 20" OEM tires at 42 psi.
I’m in Irvine. I’m curious are you able to make it from Anaheim to the Kettleman charger without any other stops? ABRP says I can’t make it but it’s only 200 miles away.
 

dmh444

Member
Apr 2, 2020
117
84
irvine
This was on a roundtrip from the SF Bay Area to Anaheim with some local driving around there as well:
View attachment 694109
Most of the driving was highway at speeds of 70 or higher. This was with two people in the car and a moderate amount of luggage. About half the return trip had substantial headwind and I averaged 330 Wh/mi there reflected in the 290 Wh/mi above (the outbound leg was more like 270 Wh/mi).

All this in a 2021 MY LR AWD 20" OEM tires at 42 psi.

@dolfs - I'm a bit confused with your stats. Your efficiency shows 73%. But your wh/m = 290. I thought the "rated" wh/m =250 (the "rated" line on the energy screen). So if I take 250/290, I get 85% efficiency. Am I skipping a step here?

Thanks.
 

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