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AWD and EHVIP

llbean

Member
May 24, 2018
39
13
Toronto
New to this forum but Im confused

If we add 6500 CAD for AWD (forget about performance) - the price of the M3 AWD is about 79k Canadian?

So this would make it ineligible for the EHVIP which limits MRSP to 75k?

Not to mention a new PC govt is likely to dismantle this

And we have no idea when AWD will start in Canada

So am I correct to say - there is virtually no change in the M3AWD being eligible for the EHVIP - if it exists then?
 

eros

Member
Mar 1, 2018
142
150
Ontario
Not sure how you got to 79k.

Model 3 $45,600
Long Range Battery $11,900
Premium Upgrades $6,600
Dual Motor $6,500

That takes you to $70,600, well within the 75k range. The only question is if the rebate will be there by the time you get an AWD Model 3, which of course it won't.

Note: As far as I know, Autopilot does not count towards the 75k limit.
 

sitter_k

Active Member
Jun 23, 2014
1,032
513
Toronto (GTA)
It's not all doom for an AWD under evip, truth is no one knows what is going to happen.

If you're on the bubble of affordability or only want rwd get LR first production, no question.
If you're a bit of a gambler and want to roll the dice of not getting it, you can order just after the election and see if there's a pc majority, a PC minority, a ndp minority, NDP majority or a liberal NDP coalition. A number of those quite possible scenarios will make the elimination of evip a lot less likely. Or you can drive close to the edge and keep waiting till AWD comes and seeing what the current status of the rebate is at that time. Cap and trade isn't like cancelling PST there were credits given by the government, purchased by b companies and traded between other jurisdictions. To blow it up would be a complicated mess with many financial implications.

I'm not sure why many feel that it's a foregone conclusion that Ford will win, that he will win a majority, that he will 100% cancel evip (and yet they believe he will not keep any other promise oddly), or that AWD won't be here before evip is cancelled.

we don't when AWD is coming because the roll out method and property is unclear and we don't know if evip will be cancelled let alone when.
 
Last edited:

ZooSean

ZOO
Feb 16, 2018
859
289
Markham, Canada
It's not all doom for an AWD under evip, truth is no one knows what is going to happen.

If you're on the bubble of affordability or only want rwd get LR first production, no question.
If you're a bit of a gambler and want to roll the dice of not getting it, you can order just after the election and see if there's a pc majority, a PC minority, a ndp minority, NDP majority or a liberal NDP coalition. A number of those quite possible scenarios will make the elimination of evip a lot less likely. Or you can drive close to the edge and keep waiting till AWD comes and seeing what the current status of the rebate is at that time. Cap and trade isn't like cancelling PST there were credits given by the government, purchased by b companies and traded between other jurisdictions. To blow it up would be a complicated mess with many financial implications.

I'm not sure why many feel that it's a foregone conclusion that Ford will win, that he will win a majority, that he will 100% cancel evip (and yet they believe he will not keep any other promise oddly), or that AWD won't be here before evip is cancelled.

we don't when AWD is coming because the roll out method and property is unclear and we don't know if evip will be cancelled let alone when.

Good that you mention gamble. If gamble, there must be a probability to win. Just like you will not always put all your money on 0 at roulette. Because the probability are low.

Say EVIP cancellation probability would be 30% only, then cost of AWD would be 14000*0.3 + 6500, it still more than 10K . To most of us, it makes non sense to wait, as 10K will be too much for AWD.
 

Dante

Member
Apr 3, 2016
280
135
Canada
In the past, when EVIP was modified, the previous rules applied to cars ordered prior to the date of change I believe. What are the time periods it would take to eliminate EVIP in the case we get a Ford majority that intends to end the credit? If we are allowed to put a down payment and order AWD before they cancel the program, does that likely mean we’ll be safe for the rebate? Obviously government can do whatever they want, but past performance may be somewhat indicative of future performance.

So maybe we can beg Tesla to open up the order stream for Canadians, even if it says delivery in 5 months?
 
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wanche

Member
Nov 14, 2017
307
140
Toronto
In the past, when EVIP was modified, the previous rules applied to cars ordered prior to the date of change I believe. What are the time periods it would take to eliminate EVIP in the case we get a Ford majority that intends to end the credit? If we are allowed to put a down payment and order AWD before they cancel the program, does that likely mean we’ll be safe for the rebate? Obviously government can do whatever they want, but past performance may be somewhat indicative of future performance.

So maybe we can beg Tesla to open up the order stream for Canadians, even if it says delivery in 5 months?

was thinking about this as well. +1 ! Another problem, Model 3 LR AWD is not on the list yet, election is in 2 weeks, don't think they would care to update that list .....
 
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stickla

Member
May 25, 2018
27
9
GTA, ON
was thinking about this as well. +1 ! Another problem, Model 3 LR AWD is not on the list yet, election is in 2 weeks, don't think they would care to update that list .....

This makes a lot of sense.

Also when I first put down the deposit I was determined to get the AWD, but with the ~$6500 and the higher likilhood of not getting the rebate, decided to go with the RWD LR. After doing more research, I should be quite ok with the snow tires for my regular winter driver mostly on paved roads, my current car is a RWD with snow tire and I survived for 10 years. This may help some of you make up your mind if you don't drive on unplowed country road a lot:


 

ebatmobile

Member
Mar 4, 2018
144
158
Toronto, Canada
In the past, when EVIP was modified, the previous rules applied to cars ordered prior to the date of change I believe. What are the time periods it would take to eliminate EVIP in the case we get a Ford majority that intends to end the credit? If we are allowed to put a down payment and order AWD before they cancel the program, does that likely mean we’ll be safe for the rebate? Obviously government can do whatever they want, but past performance may be somewhat indicative of future performance.

So maybe we can beg Tesla to open up the order stream for Canadians, even if it says delivery in 5 months?
You can beg all you want, the rebate can only be submitted when the car is delivered. Order date is meaningless. Not trying to be a wet blanket just give you the facts. You decide who you think will win the election and if they will keep the rebate vs. AWD delivery time.
 

sitter_k

Active Member
Jun 23, 2014
1,032
513
Toronto (GTA)
You can beg all you want, the rebate can only be submitted when the car is delivered. Order date is meaningless. Not trying to be a wet blanket just give you the facts. You decide who you think will win the election and if they will keep the rebate vs. AWD delivery time.
It was stated by the Ford campaign that orders in the pipe would be grandfathered. Also Nissan and GM give the evip discount off the price of the car then apply for it on the customer's behalf. GM and Nissan would be just out that money? But yes rebate can only be submitted once you have the car however.
 

ebatmobile

Member
Mar 4, 2018
144
158
Toronto, Canada
It was stated by the Ford campaign that orders in the pipe would be grandfathered. Also Nissan and GM give the evip discount off the price of the car then apply for it on the customer's behalf. GM and Nissan would be just out that money? But yes rebate can only be submitted once you have the car however.

Cool that he stated that but politicians change their words all the time. Justin Trudeau said he would reform voting. Did he? Are you willing to bet $14,000 Ford sticks to his word? All I'm saying is know the facts. AWD is not coming to Canada any time soon.

Also not sure why you are discussing GM & Nissan who have nothing to do with this.
 

Veedio

Member
Apr 1, 2016
121
91
Oakville, ON
Cool that he stated that but politicians change their words all the time. Justin Trudeau said he would reform voting. Did he? Are you willing to bet $14,000 Ford sticks to his word? All I'm saying is know the facts. AWD is not coming to Canada any time soon.

Also not sure why you are discussing GM & Nissan who have nothing to do with this.

It actually has a lot to do with it. The car companies will have their own clout when it comes to how ending the rebate is handled (if it is). They won’t want to be left on the hook for the 14k per car if they provided the rebate up front to the buyer and previous sales aren’t grandfathered (most of the other car companies appear to be taking the 14k off the top, unlike Tesla)
 

ebatmobile

Member
Mar 4, 2018
144
158
Toronto, Canada
It actually has a lot to do with it. The car companies will have their own clout when it comes to how ending the rebate is handled (if it is). They won’t want to be left on the hook for the 14k per car if they provided the rebate up front to the buyer and previous sales aren’t grandfathered (most of the other car companies appear to be taking the 14k off the top, unlike Tesla)

Ok maybe post that in a GM or Nissan forum where it is relevant.
 
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Munch

Member
Mar 19, 2016
209
207
Toronto, ON
It actually has a lot to do with it. The car companies will have their own clout when it comes to how ending the rebate is handled (if it is). They won’t want to be left on the hook for the 14k per car if they provided the rebate up front to the buyer and previous sales aren’t grandfathered (most of the other car companies appear to be taking the 14k off the top, unlike Tesla)
I have read something about there being clauses in their agreement saying that they will come after the buyer for the rebate if it gets cancelled.
 
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sitter_k

Active Member
Jun 23, 2014
1,032
513
Toronto (GTA)
Cool that he stated that but politicians change their words all the time. Justin Trudeau said he would reform voting. Did he? Are you willing to bet $14,000 Ford sticks to his word? All I'm saying is know the facts. AWD is not coming to Canada any time soon.

Also not sure why you are discussing GM & Nissan who have nothing to do with this.
GM and Nissan are affected by the evip, a policy change would hurt them directly unlike Tesla. There would be some lobbying by GM and Nissan which would benefit Tesla.

Secondly you believe Ford will be a man of his word and will cancel the Cap and trade and evip as a result. Yet you believe he's not a man of his word and won't grandfather the orders in the pipe for evip.

You've stated opinion rather than fact. Other than Trudeau hasn't returned voting, but I'm sure that's not any indication of Ford's follow through or lack there of, the 2 are obviously vastly different characters.

I think we tend to believe politicians not affiliated with our party will totally do all we see that is negative and reneg on any of the positives.

Ok maybe post that in a GM or Nissan forum where it is relevant.
It's relevant here as well, the ships are linked.
 

ebatmobile

Member
Mar 4, 2018
144
158
Toronto, Canada
GM and Nissan are affected by the evip, a policy change would hurt them directly unlike Tesla. There would be some lobbying by GM and Nissan which would benefit Tesla.

Secondly you believe Ford will be a man of his word and will cancel the Cap and trade and evip as a result. Yet you believe he's not a man of his word and won't grandfather the orders in the pipe for evip.

You've stated opinion rather than fact. Other than Trudeau hasn't returned voting, but I'm sure that's not any indication of Ford's follow through or lack there of, the 2 are obviously vastly different characters.

I think we tend to believe politicians not affiliated with our party will totally do all we see that is negative and reneg on any of the positives.


It's relevant here as well, the ships are linked.
If you think GM & Nissan care about EV sales in 2018, I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge to sell you. They are a rounding error at best to make California happy for GM and less than 1% of total sales for Nissan in Canada for 2017. They won't waste a penny lobbying.

I'd love you to be right though
 

sitter_k

Active Member
Jun 23, 2014
1,032
513
Toronto (GTA)
If you think GM & Nissan care about EV sales in 2018, I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge to sell you. They are a rounding error at best to make California happy for GM and less than 1% of total sales for Nissan in Canada for 2017. They won't waste a penny lobbying.

I'd love you to be right though
The cancelling of the rebate going forward is one thing, the grandfathering of existing orders is another. Even the largest of car companies don't treat losing $14k X #cars sold lightly.
 

ebatmobile

Member
Mar 4, 2018
144
158
Toronto, Canada
The cancelling of the rebate going forward is one thing, the grandfathering of existing orders is another. Even the largest of car companies don't treat losing $14k X #cars sold lightly.

You really are making a mountain out of a molehill. Nissan sold roughly 1,300 Leafs in all of Canada in 2017. Ontario figures I could not find but if you go proportionally with population its about 450 or so. They sold 145,000+ cars nationally in 2017. I'm not convinced they care about the loss of 450 sales assuming no one buys another Leaf ever again in Ontario because the rebate is cancelled.
 

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