TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

AWD is the best-everything else is obsolete

Discussion in 'Technical' started by AWDtsla, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    Yes not everyday, only about 45% of the days in the year have some precipitation. http://www.london.climatemps.com/precipitation.php Go up to Glasgow and it's only 55%.

    "only"

    It's only 35% where I am, and high powered RWD cars are just a pain on a wet day, in the bends or not.


    Along with "character and depth" comes obsolescence. But hey, wearing mechanical watches with 18th century technology is still a thing. So like I said, whatever floats your boat.
     
  2. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    So my RWD Tesla is obsolete, and not suitable for use in the rain ? Are you suggesting I ask for a refund as it's clearly not fit for purpose :rolleyes: I've driven mine in snow and ice, rain and shine, and it's just worked.

    Drink up the AWD KoolAid sold to you by Audi, then rehashed by Elon because he's missed the deadline on the X.

    Quite simply the steering on the Model S is numb and uninvolving, it can't go round a track, and apart from being blistering 0-60 is a one trick pony as a performance car. It makes a fantastic daily driver for sure. But it can't hide it's original design intent, a big comfortable exec cruiser, and if you must have AWD then the S85D is probably the pick of the range.

    So I'm sorry I agree with AM, ludicrous is a poor fit for the character of the car.
     
  3. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    Having 4 wheels on a car and only 2 have them having power is obsolete. You can like it if you want, it doesn't make it not obsolete.
     
  4. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Great so St. Elon having made me wait 14 months for a car has obsoleted it in 8... . That's awesome for the environment.
     
  5. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    So the 100+ million cars in the U.S. That are front or rear wheel drive are obsolete? Got it.
     
  6. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    Yes.
     
  7. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    #7 smac, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Look on the plus side, if 2WD cars were banned, the roads would be full of Hummers and Escalades :rolleyes:

    The only reason Tesla went AWD this early in the S is to get traction for 0-60 times.

    Anyone remember this?

     
  8. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    #8 AWDtsla, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016

    So... slow.....







    0-60 what?
     
  9. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    And 60-0 takes longer because it's heavier!!! :rolleyes:

    All wheel drive does nothing to help slowing down, only speeding up. If the car is struggling for traction accelerating, then really you should be thinking about what you are doing because you are going to have to stop at some point. (Even before Mr McRae's unfortunate death he had a nickname. Colin McCrash, maybe that's what you want from a car, not me.)

    Meanwhile you are carrying around the equivalent of a passenger everywhere you go. Yes you might make that penalty back if you are mainly doing constant highway stuff due to the different gearing in the front motor, but for many we are doing the majority of miles on primarily city routes, and the D doesn't make back that penalty. (From Tesla's own EPA numbers!)

    Irrespective of it being an EV that efficiency is important. Energy has to come from somewhere, and it isn't all solar/hydro/wind!

    So are you seriously saying that Tesla should only sell AWD, because in your view 2WD is obsolete?
     
  10. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    #10 AWDtsla, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
    In my country, the average person could make up for that extra weight simply by going on a diet.

    Also, the Model S probably has the lightest AWD system that actually works, the 85D only weights 177 lbs more than it's RWD counterpart.

    You might as well argue next to take all the crash protection out of the car. We could save a few passengers worth of weight, and still meet minimum crash standards.

    85D is clearly more efficient than the 85.

    Yes. I think it's only still an option to let people that live in climates like southern California save a few bucks. But the 85D is superior in every way to the 85 or the P85.
     
  11. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    As I said the 85 is more efficient by Tesla's own numbers in city traffic, and testers on her have found the results inconclusive over all. And the P85D is the least efficient car Tesla have ever made.
    Tesla Launches Model S 70D
    (The 60 and 70 even more so)

    I am not disagreeing with you that the S85D is a better car than the old P85. The old P85 had far too much power for it's tires in the damp IMHO, it wasn't pleasant to drive in the wet, and the throttle response was artificially sharp (presumably so you could subconsciously feel where your money had gone over the S85, which was much more suited to the range optimized tires necessitated by being an EV)

    But to say the S85 is obsolete, is frankly wrong. It's about use case. If you use it mainly in the city, then it is a perfectly capable and competent car, as well as being the best for the planet (after the S70)
     
  12. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    Uhhh, no? Driving Range for the Model S Family | Tesla Motors

    Are we just making stuff up now? 70D gets 10 miles more range than 70 on the same charge.

    You need to check your data. Sounds like you're applying ICE powertrain analogies to an EV.
     
  13. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    People complaining because of Tesla's rapid innovation is not a valid complaint in my book, so I suppose I'm glad it didn't factor into the results.
     
  14. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,097
    Location:
    Redwood Shores, CA
    Guys, guys, to each his or her own. I loved my RWD S60 just as much as I do my P85D. Both RWD and AWD Model S are very capable cars.
     
  15. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Reading that along with your screen name, I have concluded you may be suffering from a disproportionately high amount of cognitive dissonance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Speak for yourself.

    No, because removing AWD does not remove an essential, life-saving safety feature mandated by federal law.

    The 60 is more efficient than the 85 as well, but that doesn't make the 60 a superior car. A cat can have kittens in the oven but that don't make 'em biscuits!

    Many have complained of the additional motor noise in the 85D and P85D, as well as a change to the steering feel due to the front motor. Additional mechanical and software complexities of the dual drive train have also caused problems for folks, including immobilization of the vehicle and shuddering at low speeds. Never had those problems with my RWD, which by the way, performs expertly in heavy monsoon rains.
     
  16. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    So I imagined all the complaints about AP hardware release, where at the drop of a hat some people got cars that were worth 3% less on the valuation formula than
    cars delivered the next week?

    Innovation is great, and I love how Tesla are doing on this front. However the release strategy is far from perfect, and can lead to resentment if you are just the wrong side of a "product drop". Traditionally this would have been smoothed with run out discounts. However Tesla just make you take the hit.
     
  17. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Not sure what that has to do with the CR's rating of the P85D?

    While I don't see that changing, none of this discounts the fact that P85D owners - largely across the board - are completely blown away by their car. The few threads of discontent and a letter signed by 70-80 owner members of TMC is literally noise compared to the total ownership pool. I would love for Tesla to take good care of its early adopters, but let's be honest - Tesla's future does not really depend on them at this point.
     
  18. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,144
    Location:
    NE
    Where cognitive dissonance means accurately predicting the future? I see.

    If I lost a persons worth of weight I would be dead, I assure you.

    We could add another hundred pounds of "life saving" equipment if we dumped a half shaft, differential, and drive hub. One wheel drive! super safe...

    I don't even know what straw man you've tried to create. My argument was never about efficiency, it is however not a downside like it is in every other car.

    Ok, now we're down to anecdotes over hard published data. 85D is faster, more efficient, and has more traction than the 85 in any circumstance.
     
  19. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    just an example for the subsequent point really ;)

    The cars are great, and Tesla deserve all the praise they get on the product. However I'm still not sure it's true they don't need to look after their early adopters. (Especially outside the US).

    I for one won't buy another new one, I'm jaded and won't take the risk. If asked about my car by friends or family, I recommend they don't either. I'm not an investor, and I don't view Tesla as a charity. So I say sure buy an inventory car, or be aware it's a gamble. (Bear in mind every P85D delivered into the UK was already out of date because of the P90D and all were at least 4 months late :( )

    So maybe my views are skewed by my location ;)
     
  20. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    NJ
    This really seems like just a troll thread...

    However to me AWD takes an extra 177lbs, costs $5k and a big ole chunk of frunk space and it doesn't get you anything substantial. RWD has plenty of traction for me, even in the snow.

    AWD is just a marketing tool thats been used by Subaru and Audi.
     

Share This Page