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lose 177 lbs?
confused...I'd like to challenge your 85D superiority... bring it on!
or a p85D in autocross...
This is like a colorblind person showing up to a thread about red vs green. Yes, you're being trolled, since obviously there is no difference between red and green.
If you read the text in your link, not just look at the headline numbers it backs up Tesla's spreadsheet for the ranges in city/highway/combined. You obviously can't be bothered, so here it is in bite size form:
Model City/Highway/combined
85 RWD 262.7/ 266.8 / 265
85 AWD 257.1/ 285.3 / 270
70 AWD 242.8 / 246.4 / 240* (*Intentionally under represented by Tesla, presumably to avoid cannibalizing 85 sales)
70 RWD ??? So yes I'm "making it up" but by extrapolation extremely likely to be the best* in town use.
Weight (and importantly rotating mass as you are also spinning CV joints, shafts, differential gears and a motor) unsurprisingly from a physics POV hurt city range, where the mass is constantly changing velocity.
TBH all the 70 numbers are a bit suspect. Why does the 85 battery gain >10% range on the highway cycle, but the 70D gain <1% is beyond me. I guess that's what happens when manufacturers are exempt from third party validation of the results (EV's are all done on a trust basis under an exemption in the EPA rules).
edit: * in terms of efficiency, if not out and out range.
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Panoz
Member
Girls - you're both pretty! Stop this senseless argument. AWD is very useful for what it's useful for. I would use it in Colorado and just to get up my driveway-from-hell. If I lived in a warmer state - like Texas or Florida - I wouldn't get it due the weight penalty.
Let's promote EVs, not argue who has the best car among Tesla owners. I remember in college (1,000 years ago) two engineering students arguing nearly to the death about Texas Instruments vs. Hewlett Packard calculators. Quite a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me. This thread is starting to sound similar...
Let's promote EVs, not argue who has the best car among Tesla owners. I remember in college (1,000 years ago) two engineering students arguing nearly to the death about Texas Instruments vs. Hewlett Packard calculators. Quite a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me. This thread is starting to sound similar...
Now that is silly everyone knows HP + RPN was best... it had had no equals
DISCLAIMER: I have never used either, but do remember learning about them in a CS "history lesson"
deonb
Active Member
You can definitely keep your AWD - I'll take the extra space in the frunk and the extra safety of not having a 180lbs motor in my lap in case of an accident.
It's a big shame that the P85 no longer exists. I won't trade my P85 for a P85D. (Well, I will, then sell the P85D and buy another P85 ).
Hopefully by the time I have to replace there will be something like a 120 RWD with the same perf as a current P85, so that I don't have to go AWD. Also, the 120 RWD should coincide nicely with the autopilot release...
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Boo-hiss! I grew up on them.
It's a big shame that the P85 no longer exists. I won't trade my P85 for a P85D. (Well, I will, then sell the P85D and buy another P85
).Hopefully by the time I have to replace there will be something like a 120 RWD with the same perf as a current P85, so that I don't have to go AWD. Also, the 120 RWD should coincide nicely with the autopilot release...
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DISCLAIMER: I have never used either, but do remember learning about them in a CS "history lesson"
Boo-hiss! I grew up on them.
I can't think of any other 4 door saloon car that gets close to the 0-60 that isn't AWD
The P85 was more traction than power limited If we are wish listing... I'm hoping for a RWD performance variant of the 3, an EV M3 rival would be right up my street, an RS4 rival not so much. But then I think Porsche GT3 > Porsche Turbo
I'll say it, before someone else does, the Porsche 918 is AWD
(And yes it was faster round Laguna)
typically traction limited...I can't think of any other 4 door saloon car that gets close to the 0-60 that isn't AWD
I took a friends wife on a quick test ride and managed to 100% hook up from a standstill with a full throttle stomp -running all season tires on a sticky sandpapery chipsealed road. More accel than I have ever felt in my P and at the 40-43mph mark where I'd usually lose traction it pulled extra really hard. was surprising after 2 1/2 years to feel (what I am pretty sure was) an under 4s run. I was pretty shocked
RWD is better
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I'll say it, before someone else does, the Porsche 918 is AWD
no P85D has been faster than a P85 or S85 at Laguna as far as I know....anyone?
I drove one of the first Audi 4WD in the 80's and from then on thought that ALL cars should have it. After enjoying my P85D for 8 month I recently had a P85+ loaner. UNDRIVABLE in rain !! My P85D basically drives in rain like my old P85 on dry streets, it's amazing !
NOT having 4WD in a 100k car is just stupid.
NOT having 4WD in a 100k car is just stupid.
Enough with the hyperbole. Yes it can go around a track. Maybe not as many times as you like or at the speed that you like.
As for the subjective, I disagree with the steering characterization as well.
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Assists in the way + driver experience + tires were the issues for my P85D.
I did bother and I see nothing like the table you're presenting. I don't know where this is from, but it's not from the link I posted. Unless you're getting redirected to some UK version. This is the data I see:
So my RWD Tesla is obsolete, and not suitable for use in the rain ? Are you suggesting I ask for a refund as it's clearly not fit for purpose
Drink up the AWD KoolAid sold to you by Audi, then rehashed by Elon because he's missed the deadline on the X.
Quite simply the steering on the Model S is numb and uninvolving, it can't go round a track, and apart from being blistering 0-60 is a one trick pony as a performance car. It makes a fantastic daily driver for sure. But it can't hide it's original design intent, a big comfortable exec cruiser, and if you must have AWD then the S85D is probably the pick of the range.
I drove both RWD and AWD before getting my P90D and personally I preferred the feel of AWD and noticed a difference even though I live in a place that rarely sees rain and never sees snow. I was able to get the wheels to spin in the RWD without much effort, with good tread.
I completely disagree with the steering. Other than the float you experience with SAS if you hit a bump in a turn, it will corner incredibly well. If Elon was right, and I plan on testing it, 1G laterally is significant. I have first hand experience with the P90D on twisty roads and so far nobody has kept up. It doesn't mean there aren't cars that can, but it isn't a one trick pony.
I'm not sure how it is a poor fit because all it is really is more power given to a really awesome car. I think Insane/Ludicrous gets a bad name for no real good reason. IMO it is no different than a base model S-class vs a S63/S65 AMG. I bought the P90D because it is a big sedan, has the power I want in a car, and it is practical just like all the non-Ludicrous/non-AWD versions we all love so much. I could have gone out and bought a MB S63 AMG that has just under 600 horsepower and has a crazy interior, but then I have to deal with a bunch of features I don't really care about just because I want a big sedan with lots of power. Most people here love their Model S, Tesla just offered that exact same awesome car with a bunch of extra power. I don't want reclining rear seats, and I don't want a bunch of knobs and buttons. I wanted what the Model S offered and I didn't have to compromise on the power and I didn't have to pay for features I didn't want. So from my perspective it's a perfect fit, but I wasn't deciding between a Ferrari, Lambo, and P90D. I was deciding between big sedans with lots of power.
Now if it should have had an Sport/Normal mode instead of Ludicrous/Sport, that's a totally different topic.
In cases where AWD is available for the money I could spend, I.E, CTS 3.6 AWD instead of CTS 3.6 RWD, Magnum 5.7 R/T AWD instead of Magnum 5.7 Hemi RWD etc etc... I'd certainly pick AWD simply for the fact of knowing that it would hug the road better. However, to say that RWD makes a car obsolete is IMO simply absurd for many reasons... a RWD car CAN be driven on rough weather conditions as long as you know what you are doing. Unprofessionally just nailing the throttle and making the rear end of a fast RWD car shake all the way across the street is obviously unacceptable.
Hitting the 1g is less important, to me, than holding it and gradually giving it up as you accelerate. As turns tighten, see if you find a dead pedal in the P90D, coming out. On the accelerometer, my guess is that if you see 1g, it will be before the apex. Afterward, see if you feel a jolt of acceleration when the steering wheel finally gets back within ~10 degrees of dead-center. Try keeping your foot down/steady, as this point in the steering wheel arrives. Didja feel it come back on?
If the road is cambered/banked, your "1g" reading will be polluted by down force. It should be flat.
A guy with one leg can use a crutch too.
IMHO, anything more than ~75HP per wheel needs all wheels driven. If any gear in a car gives you sufficient torque to overcome dry traction, that gear is the result of stupidity.
Purpose built race cars which almost never experience speeds where this condition happens don't count. That's a corner case optimization that never happens in real life unless you're buying a track car.
A guy with one leg can use a crutch yes, that's what it's made for. Are you uhm... sorry, can't say that word here. You got the point.
Back on topic, you don't seem to understand the basics of these things, so let me educate you. I've driven an AWD car and numerous FWD cars, which are clearly worse than RWD. Yes, crappy cars can and WILL slip and go out of steering control in such cases. However, you're simply making up stuff and trying to call people things at it.
Anything with more than about 75 HP per wheel needs all wheels driven? What the are you on? Do you understand that those numbers are YOUR fiction and that there are a lot of metrics to consider, such as the weight of the vehicle, the drag coefficiency of it and such?
You don't look to understand anything about your so called "purpose built race cars" either. Any car, let it be a pro-stock dragger or an everyday hauler, may and WOULD go out of control if there is more power than what the chassis can handle. That's why drag cars move to the side of the other lane of the drag strip when that happens.
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