Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

AWD is the best-everything else is obsolete

In my country, the average person could make up for that extra weight simply by going on a diet.

Also, the Model S probably has the lightest AWD system that actually works, the 85D only weights 177 lbs more than it's RWD counterpart.

Yes. I think it's only still an option to let people that live in climates like southern California save a few bucks. But the 85D is superior in every way to the 85 or the P85.
lose 177 lbs?
confused...I'd like to challenge your 85D superiority... bring it on!
or a p85D in autocross...
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,289
4,266
NE
This really seems like just a troll thread...

However to me AWD takes an extra 177lbs, costs $5k and a big ole chunk of frunk space and it doesn't get you anything substantial. RWD has plenty of traction for me, even in the snow.

AWD is just a marketing tool thats been used by Subaru and Audi.

This is like a colorblind person showing up to a thread about red vs green. Yes, you're being trolled, since obviously there is no difference between red and green. :rolleyes:
 
Uhhh, no? Driving Range for the Model S Family | Tesla Motors

Are we just making stuff up now? 70D gets 10 miles more range than 70 on the same charge.

You need to check your data. Sounds like you're applying ICE powertrain analogies to an EV.

If you read the text in your link, not just look at the headline numbers it backs up Tesla's spreadsheet for the ranges in city/highway/combined. You obviously can't be bothered, so here it is in bite size form:

Model City/Highway/combined
85 RWD 262.7/ 266.8 / 265
85 AWD 257.1/ 285.3 / 270
70 AWD 242.8 / 246.4 / 240* (*Intentionally under represented by Tesla, presumably to avoid cannibalizing 85 sales)

70 RWD ??? So yes I'm "making it up" but by extrapolation extremely likely to be the best* in town use.

Weight (and importantly rotating mass as you are also spinning CV joints, shafts, differential gears and a motor) unsurprisingly from a physics POV hurt city range, where the mass is constantly changing velocity.

TBH all the 70 numbers are a bit suspect. Why does the 85 battery gain >10% range on the highway cycle, but the 70D gain <1% is beyond me. I guess that's what happens when manufacturers are exempt from third party validation of the results (EV's are all done on a trust basis under an exemption in the EPA rules).


edit: * in terms of efficiency, if not out and out range.
 
Last edited:
Girls - you're both pretty! Stop this senseless argument. AWD is very useful for what it's useful for. I would use it in Colorado and just to get up my driveway-from-hell. If I lived in a warmer state - like Texas or Florida - I wouldn't get it due the weight penalty.

Let's promote EVs, not argue who has the best car among Tesla owners. I remember in college (1,000 years ago) two engineering students arguing nearly to the death about Texas Instruments vs. Hewlett Packard calculators. Quite a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me. This thread is starting to sound similar...
 
Texas Instruments vs. Hewlett Packard calculators

Now that is silly everyone knows HP + RPN was best... it had had no equals ;)

HP_hat.jpg




DISCLAIMER: I have never used either, but do remember learning about them in a CS "history lesson" :p
 

deonb

Active Member
Mar 4, 2013
4,062
4,362
Redmond, WA
You can definitely keep your AWD - I'll take the extra space in the frunk and the extra safety of not having a 180lbs motor in my lap in case of an accident.

It's a big shame that the P85 no longer exists. I won't trade my P85 for a P85D. (Well, I will, then sell the P85D and buy another P85 :) ).

Hopefully by the time I have to replace there will be something like a 120 RWD with the same perf as a current P85, so that I don't have to go AWD. Also, the 120 RWD should coincide nicely with the autopilot release...

- - - Updated - - -

DISCLAIMER: I have never used either, but do remember learning about them in a CS "history lesson" :p

Boo-hiss! I grew up on them.
 
Hopefully by the time I have to replace there will be something like a 120 RWD with the same perf as a current P85, so that I don't have to go AWD. Also, the 120 RWD should coincide nicely with the autopilot release...

I can't think of any other 4 door saloon car that gets close to the 0-60 that isn't AWD :( The P85 was more traction than power limited :(

If we are wish listing... I'm hoping for a RWD performance variant of the 3, an EV M3 rival would be right up my street, an RS4 rival not so much. But then I think Porsche GT3 > Porsche Turbo ;)
 
I can't think of any other 4 door saloon car that gets close to the 0-60 that isn't AWD :( The P85 was more traction than power limited :(
typically traction limited...
I took a friends wife on a quick test ride and managed to 100% hook up from a standstill with a full throttle stomp -running all season tires on a sticky sandpapery chipsealed road. More accel than I have ever felt in my P and at the 40-43mph mark where I'd usually lose traction it pulled extra really hard. was surprising after 2 1/2 years to feel (what I am pretty sure was) an under 4s run. I was pretty shocked
RWD is better

- - - Updated - - -

I'll say it, before someone else does, the Porsche 918 is AWD :p (And yes it was faster round Laguna)

no P85D has been faster than a P85 or S85 at Laguna as far as I know....anyone?
 
I drove one of the first Audi 4WD in the 80's and from then on thought that ALL cars should have it. After enjoying my P85D for 8 month I recently had a P85+ loaner. UNDRIVABLE in rain !! My P85D basically drives in rain like my old P85 on dry streets, it's amazing !

NOT having 4WD in a 100k car is just stupid.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,618
3,224
Quite simply the steering on the Model S is numb and uninvolving, it can't go round a track
Enough with the hyperbole. Yes it can go around a track. Maybe not as many times as you like or at the speed that you like.

As for the subjective, I disagree with the steering characterization as well.

- - - Updated - - -

no P85D has been faster than a P85 or S85 at Laguna as far as I know....anyone?
Assists in the way + driver experience + tires were the issues for my P85D.
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,289
4,266
NE
If you read the text in your link, not just look at the headline numbers it backs up Tesla's spreadsheet for the ranges in city/highway/combined. You obviously can't be bothered, so here it is in bite size form:

Model City/Highway/combined
85 RWD 262.7/ 266.8 / 265
85 AWD 257.1/ 285.3 / 270
70 AWD 242.8 / 246.4 / 240* (*Intentionally under represented by Tesla, presumably to avoid cannibalizing 85 sales)

I did bother and I see nothing like the table you're presenting. I don't know where this is from, but it's not from the link I posted. Unless you're getting redirected to some UK version. This is the data I see:

driving-range-for-the-model-s-family-chart1.png
 

Pete90D

Fan of Red Lights
Jul 25, 2015
478
4
Bay Area, CA
So my RWD Tesla is obsolete, and not suitable for use in the rain ? Are you suggesting I ask for a refund as it's clearly not fit for purpose :rolleyes: I've driven mine in snow and ice, rain and shine, and it's just worked.

Drink up the AWD KoolAid sold to you by Audi, then rehashed by Elon because he's missed the deadline on the X.

Quite simply the steering on the Model S is numb and uninvolving, it can't go round a track, and apart from being blistering 0-60 is a one trick pony as a performance car. It makes a fantastic daily driver for sure. But it can't hide it's original design intent, a big comfortable exec cruiser, and if you must have AWD then the S85D is probably the pick of the range.

I drove both RWD and AWD before getting my P90D and personally I preferred the feel of AWD and noticed a difference even though I live in a place that rarely sees rain and never sees snow. I was able to get the wheels to spin in the RWD without much effort, with good tread.

I completely disagree with the steering. Other than the float you experience with SAS if you hit a bump in a turn, it will corner incredibly well. If Elon was right, and I plan on testing it, 1G laterally is significant. I have first hand experience with the P90D on twisty roads and so far nobody has kept up. It doesn't mean there aren't cars that can, but it isn't a one trick pony.

ludicrous is a poor fit for the character of the car.

I'm not sure how it is a poor fit because all it is really is more power given to a really awesome car. I think Insane/Ludicrous gets a bad name for no real good reason. IMO it is no different than a base model S-class vs a S63/S65 AMG. I bought the P90D because it is a big sedan, has the power I want in a car, and it is practical just like all the non-Ludicrous/non-AWD versions we all love so much. I could have gone out and bought a MB S63 AMG that has just under 600 horsepower and has a crazy interior, but then I have to deal with a bunch of features I don't really care about just because I want a big sedan with lots of power. Most people here love their Model S, Tesla just offered that exact same awesome car with a bunch of extra power. I don't want reclining rear seats, and I don't want a bunch of knobs and buttons. I wanted what the Model S offered and I didn't have to compromise on the power and I didn't have to pay for features I didn't want. So from my perspective it's a perfect fit, but I wasn't deciding between a Ferrari, Lambo, and P90D. I was deciding between big sedans with lots of power.

Now if it should have had an Sport/Normal mode instead of Ludicrous/Sport, that's a totally different topic.
 
In cases where AWD is available for the money I could spend, I.E, CTS 3.6 AWD instead of CTS 3.6 RWD, Magnum 5.7 R/T AWD instead of Magnum 5.7 Hemi RWD etc etc... I'd certainly pick AWD simply for the fact of knowing that it would hug the road better. However, to say that RWD makes a car obsolete is IMO simply absurd for many reasons... a RWD car CAN be driven on rough weather conditions as long as you know what you are doing. Unprofessionally just nailing the throttle and making the rear end of a fast RWD car shake all the way across the street is obviously unacceptable.
 

3mp_kwh

Active Member
Feb 13, 2013
1,146
337
Boston
If Elon was right, and I plan on testing it, 1G laterally is significant. I have first hand experience with the P90D on twisty roads and so far nobody has kept up. It doesn't mean there aren't cars that can, but it isn't a one trick pony.

Hitting the 1g is less important, to me, than holding it and gradually giving it up as you accelerate. As turns tighten, see if you find a dead pedal in the P90D, coming out. On the accelerometer, my guess is that if you see 1g, it will be before the apex. Afterward, see if you feel a jolt of acceleration when the steering wheel finally gets back within ~10 degrees of dead-center. Try keeping your foot down/steady, as this point in the steering wheel arrives. Didja feel it come back on?

If the road is cambered/banked, your "1g" reading will be polluted by down force. It should be flat.
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,289
4,266
NE
In cases where AWD is available for the money I could spend, I.E, CTS 3.6 AWD instead of CTS 3.6 RWD, Magnum 5.7 R/T AWD instead of Magnum 5.7 Hemi RWD etc etc... I'd certainly pick AWD simply for the fact of knowing that it would hug the road better. However, to say that RWD makes a car obsolete is IMO simply absurd for many reasons... a RWD car CAN be driven on rough weather conditions as long as you know what you are doing. .

A guy with one leg can use a crutch too.

IMHO, anything more than ~75HP per wheel needs all wheels driven. If any gear in a car gives you sufficient torque to overcome dry traction, that gear is the result of stupidity.

Purpose built race cars which almost never experience speeds where this condition happens don't count. That's a corner case optimization that never happens in real life unless you're buying a track car.
 
A guy with one leg can use a crutch too.

IMHO, anything more than ~75HP per wheel needs all wheels driven. If any gear in a car gives you sufficient torque to overcome dry traction, that gear is the result of stupidity.

Purpose built race cars which almost never experience speeds where this condition happens don't count. That's a corner case optimization that never happens in real life unless you're buying a track car.

A guy with one leg can use a crutch yes, that's what it's made for. Are you uhm... sorry, can't say that word here. You got the point.

Back on topic, you don't seem to understand the basics of these things, so let me educate you. I've driven an AWD car and numerous FWD cars, which are clearly worse than RWD. Yes, crappy cars can and WILL slip and go out of steering control in such cases. However, you're simply making up stuff and trying to call people things at it.

Anything with more than about 75 HP per wheel needs all wheels driven? What the are you on? Do you understand that those numbers are YOUR fiction and that there are a lot of metrics to consider, such as the weight of the vehicle, the drag coefficiency of it and such?

You don't look to understand anything about your so called "purpose built race cars" either. Any car, let it be a pro-stock dragger or an everyday hauler, may and WOULD go out of control if there is more power than what the chassis can handle. That's why drag cars move to the side of the other lane of the drag strip when that happens.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top