AWD: is the rear motor the same as in the RWD?

[SoCalGuy]

Just wondering if the rear motor in the AWD M3 is the same as the one in the RWD version (i.e. are they just adding another smaller motor up front or are they replacing one large rear motor with two smaller ones)?

I don't think I've seen Elon or Tesla officially comment on this...

 

[marusan]

Elon Musk on Twitter

General wisdom is that means the same motor in the rear. AWD and AWD-P both get the same motor in the front (AC induction), but the performance model rear motors are selected from the best of the motors produced, and they unlock extra performance through software. Very different from the PxD Model S/X, which receive larger motors. These are the same motors they're putting on all the M3 rear axles.

 

[nwdiver]

Elon Musk on Twitter

General wisdom is that means the same motor in the rear. AWD and AWD-P both get the same motor in the front (AC induction), but the performance model rear motors are selected from the best of the motors produced, and they unlock extra performance through software.

It's the inverter that's getting 'binned' not the motor...

 

[marusan]

I'm betting it's the inverter that's getting 'binned' not the motor...

I could buy that. Then again, there are always subtle variances in windings, permanent magnet quality, etc. They might be looking at the whole unit.

 

[mongo]

It's the inverter that's getting 'binned' not the motor...

Given the integrated design, it's hard to have one without the other...
They would need to temp clamp the output leads to a motor simulator/ dummy load, bypass the cooling, and then retest after mating. Which isn't to say they couldn't test the electronics separately and I'm sure they do before assembly at low power, but for long duration drive unit high power testing, it is simpler and more accurate to use the complete assembly.

 

[SoCalGuy]

So theoretically you could upgrade your AWD in the future to P Via a software update if it happens to have one of the better built motors?

 

[nwdiver]

So theoretically you could upgrade your AWD in the future to P Via a software update if it happens to have one of the better built motors?

Basically the same as overclocking a processor.

 

[Daniel in SD]

The P probably doesn't even produce any significant extra power from the rear motor. Only need 50% more power to go from 0-60 in 3.5s vs 5.1s. That could be accomplished with a front motor that has half the power of the LR.

 

[PhaseWhite]

The P probably doesn't even produce any significant extra power from the rear motor. Only need 50% more power to go from 0-60 in 3.5s vs 5.1s. That could be accomplished with a front motor that has half the power of the LR.

The math checks out: The rear motor doesn't have to make any more power than LR3 to hit 3.5s
0-60 mph Calculator for Cars | Calculate Estimated 0-60 Times
380KW & 4000LB & Dual Clutch = 3.5s

Though I think there's a good chance we'll see some sort of speed mode like Ludicrous that boosts power output, likely to levels that the new 100D motors put out: ~425KW. That will bring 0-60 down to 3.25s. We might have to wait for some Model S / X speed boosts first though as I have to imagine the new pricing on the Performance 3 is going to put a damper on Model S sales already.

 

[jsmay311]

So theoretically you could upgrade your AWD in the future to P Via a software update if it happens to have one of the better built motors?

Elon’s tweet also mentioned "silicon carbide inverters", so I don't think so.

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[mongo]

Elon’s tweet also mentioned "silicon carbide inverters", so I don't think so.

Elon Musk on Twitter

I think that tweet meant all the 3 inverters are SiC. Otherwise, you would have some AWD/RWD with non P level SiC (didn't make the cut when binned) and some with non-SiC.

To @SoCalGuy 's point. If the yeild on the drive units is high enough to have surplus, then there would be AWD cars that are P capable (assuming both motors are high performers). If Tesla keeps them paired and traced, AWD could get the underline added (although I may have read that there is a rear forelonk change also, but that's no biggie)

Came across this article that includes tear down photos of the rotor and stator from Munro. Hadn't seen those before.
Tesla Model 3 Powertrain Fun. From Carburetors To Carborundum. You've Come A Long Way, Baby! | CleanTechnica

 

[mongo]

I've got my mind on my motors
And my motors on my mind...
-snoop Tesla

Recent tweet from E.M. :

Twitter

 

[Swampgator]

Anyone know if those are PM or induction?

 

[cmaster]

Model S and X are induction. Model 3 is PM.

Anyone know if those are PM or induction?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Model S and X are induction. Model 3 is PM.

For the Dual Motor and Performance:

AC induction in the front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet in the rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Model S and X are induction. Model 3 is PM.

Not if they are front motors for the M 3, then they are induction.

He wasn't clear why he posted it, just a goofy Dune reference about spice flowing. So I don't know if they are supposed to be front motors for AWD or they're Performance binned motors.

However from the shape, those may be the fronts. Compare to the shape in the configurator, the part where the axe runs through is sort of separate from the motor assembly and well past that the forward frame mount.

 

[cmaster]

The P-RWD motor is bigger, not binned motors. The size of it is bigger.

 

[Swampgator]

The P-RWD motor is bigger, not binned motors. The size of it is bigger.

Not in Model 3. This is true for Model S performance models.
Model 3 uses same rear motor for all versions.

 

[mongo]

The P-RWD motor is bigger, not binned motors. The size of it is bigger.

Agreeing with @Swampgator

If they were also a different size and performance sorted, what would Tesla do with the scrap?

 

[Garlan Garner]

The P-RWD motor is bigger, not binned motors. The size of it is bigger.

Bigger than?

The front? true

The Non P rear motor? false (all rear motors are the same size - however the P versions will have higher sigma output ).