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AWD: is the rear motor the same as in the RWD?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by SoCalGuy, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. SoCalGuy

    SoCalGuy Active Member

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    Just wondering if the rear motor in the AWD M3 is the same as the one in the RWD version (i.e. are they just adding another smaller motor up front or are they replacing one large rear motor with two smaller ones)?

    I don't think I've seen Elon or Tesla officially comment on this...
     
  2. marusan

    marusan Member

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    Elon Musk on Twitter

    General wisdom is that means the same motor in the rear. AWD and AWD-P both get the same motor in the front (AC induction), but the performance model rear motors are selected from the best of the motors produced, and they unlock extra performance through software. Very different from the PxD Model S/X, which receive larger motors. These are the same motors they're putting on all the M3 rear axles.
     
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  3. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    It's the inverter that's getting 'binned' not the motor...
     
  4. marusan

    marusan Member

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    I could buy that. Then again, there are always subtle variances in windings, permanent magnet quality, etc. They might be looking at the whole unit.
     
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  5. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Given the integrated design, it's hard to have one without the other...
    They would need to temp clamp the output leads to a motor simulator/ dummy load, bypass the cooling, and then retest after mating. Which isn't to say they couldn't test the electronics separately and I'm sure they do before assembly at low power, but for long duration drive unit high power testing, it is simpler and more accurate to use the complete assembly.
     
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  6. SoCalGuy

    SoCalGuy Active Member

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    So theoretically you could upgrade your AWD in the future to P Via a software update if it happens to have one of the better built motors?
     
  7. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Basically the same as overclocking a processor.
     
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  8. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    The P probably doesn't even produce any significant extra power from the rear motor. Only need 50% more power to go from 0-60 in 3.5s vs 5.1s. That could be accomplished with a front motor that has half the power of the LR.
     
  9. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

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    The math checks out: The rear motor doesn't have to make any more power than LR3 to hit 3.5s
    0-60 mph Calculator for Cars | Calculate Estimated 0-60 Times
    380KW & 4000LB & Dual Clutch = 3.5s

    Though I think there's a good chance we'll see some sort of speed mode like Ludicrous that boosts power output, likely to levels that the new 100D motors put out: ~425KW. That will bring 0-60 down to 3.25s. We might have to wait for some Model S / X speed boosts first though as I have to imagine the new pricing on the Performance 3 is going to put a damper on Model S sales already.
     
  10. jsmay311

    jsmay311 Member

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    Elon’s tweet also mentioned "silicon carbide inverters", so I don't think so.

    Elon Musk on Twitter
     
  11. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    I think that tweet meant all the 3 inverters are SiC. Otherwise, you would have some AWD/RWD with non P level SiC (didn't make the cut when binned) and some with non-SiC.

    To @SoCalGuy 's point. If the yeild on the drive units is high enough to have surplus, then there would be AWD cars that are P capable (assuming both motors are high performers). If Tesla keeps them paired and traced, AWD could get the underline added (although I may have read that there is a rear forelonk change also, but that's no biggie)

    Came across this article that includes tear down photos of the rotor and stator from Munro. Hadn't seen those before.
    Tesla Model 3 Powertrain Fun. From Carburetors To Carborundum. You've Come A Long Way, Baby! | CleanTechnica
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    I've got my mind on my motors
    And my motors on my mind...
    -snoop Tesla

    Recent tweet from E.M. :

    Twitter
    Dg19N1FU8AA8BcW.jpg
     
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  13. Swampgator

    Swampgator Member

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    Anyone know if those are PM or induction?
     
  14. cmaster

    cmaster Member

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    Model S and X are induction. Model 3 is PM.

     
  15. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    For the Dual Motor and Performance:

    AC induction in the front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet in the rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.
     
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  16. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    #16 ℬête Noire, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
    Not if they are front motors for the M 3, then they are induction.

    He wasn't clear why he posted it, just a goofy Dune reference about spice flowing. So I don't know if they are supposed to be front motors for AWD or they're Performance binned motors.

    However from the shape, those may be the fronts. Compare to the shape in the configurator, the part where the axe runs through is sort of separate from the motor assembly and well past that the forward frame mount.
     
  17. cmaster

    cmaster Member

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    The P-RWD motor is bigger, not binned motors. The size of it is bigger.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  18. Swampgator

    Swampgator Member

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    Not in Model 3. This is true for Model S performance models.
    Model 3 uses same rear motor for all versions.
     
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  19. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Agreeing with @Swampgator

    If they were also a different size and performance sorted, what would Tesla do with the scrap?
     
  20. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Bigger than?

    The front? true

    The Non P rear motor? false (all rear motors are the same size - however the P versions will have higher sigma output ).
     

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