AWD or Not?

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I think that is just a theory. The motors that were failing were a different model of motor than the D has in the rear. I would think the second motor would probably add to the complexity of the car, therefore making it possibly less reliable. KISS.

Another consideration is the amount of EMFs that you as the driver will be exposed to with having the second motor up close to you. Although it's' still inconclusive whether EMFs cause cancer or not I would still wear lead underwear if I were you.

 

[JeffK]

Supposedly the early motor problems were a result from humans greasing them inconsistently... this was later automated.

 

[Doug_G]

Another consideration is the amount of EMFs that you as the driver will be exposed to with having the second motor up close to you. Although it's' still inconclusive whether EMFs cause cancer or not I would still wear lead underwear if I were you.

That is simply FUD. First of all, there is no plausible mechanism for low frequency EMF fields to affect biological systems. It's virtually impossible for the body to absorb low frequency fields because the conductivity of the human body is far too poor. Studies that purported to show a connection were not replicatable, which shows that the original purported correlations were simply statistical blips.

Second, the field strength in a Tesla are smaller than you will encounter from sources in your home.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

EMFs and correlation to cancer may be FUD, but where in your house are you hanging out that has more EMFs than a 3 phase 300 volt motor?

 

[JeffK]

EMFs and correlation to cancer may be FUD, but where in your house are you hanging out that has more EMFs than a 3 phase 300 volt motor?

My MRI machine...

 

[PRSIST]

Many good reasons pro and con for AWD. All the great response have convinced me to hold out for the AWD.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Good, the more you spend on your Tesla the better.

 

[Vern Padgett]

AWD gives you better performance every minute you drive your car on all road surfaces.
Better traction. Better regen. Better cornering. Better acceleration. Better efficiency. All the time. Every minute you're driving.

I bought two S90Ds a year ago.

The sticker on the driver's side, left side, back window, read: "103 mpg(e) epa rating."

That is with 4 wheel drive.

Two wheel drive is 87 mpg(e).

 

[Vern Padgett]

We have two AWD cars now. We will get a RWD Model 3 to replace one. In my experience RWD is in general more fun and has better steering (all other factors being equal). I miss driving formerly owned RWD BMW's and a Porsche. I will not be drag racing and will rarely drive the M3 on snow.

A counterpoint on AWD in general:
Debunking The Myth of All-Wheel Drive

I looked at that article, and I thought it was junk.
Maybe written by a 16-year old driver.
DR61, how is it that having 4 traction wheels could possibly be less efficient, however you might define that, than having only 2 traction wheels?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I looked at that article, and I thought it was junk.
Maybe written by a 16-year old driver.
DR61, how is it that having 4 traction wheels could possibly be less efficient, however you might define that, than having only 2 traction wheels?

What an odd article.

I thought the article started innocently enough, but then evolved into a weird apples and oranges argument of AWD vs. good snow tires. I guess it is a case of to a person with hammer everything looks like a nail, to a tire tester everything is about the tires. I couldn't help wonder if there was also an implied wish that more tires of his employer might be purchased come next winter.

The best solution in wintery weather is obviously AWD with snow tires, and common sense in selecting an appropriate speed for the conditions. Had the article really made a case for the improved handling of non-AWD cars, we'd have been talking about ideal track conditions and oversteer. It might even have had a real chance at making a valid point.

After all, it is true that most AWD cars can not achieve the handling of best RWD cars in race track conditions. Few can, with all the trick diffs and computers that do more than just try to alleviate their deficiencies through ESP braking (as the average open diff consumer AWD does), but mostly RWD still has an edge on the track.

That said, in real world conditions even a fairly good "consumer" AWD will take the handling cake much of the time, aside from juvenile tail wagging fun.

 

[Doug_G]

EMFs and correlation to cancer may be FUD, but where in your house are you hanging out that has more EMFs than a 3 phase 300 volt motor?

You're surrounded by 110V/220V 60Hz wiring, some of which can be carrying substantial current (cooking, clothes drying, etc.).

There are more credible reasons to be concerned about cell phones. Fortunately the tin foil hat should help with that.

 

[Xolt]

I live in Florida (obviously no snow), I own two BMW X5's M-Sports, one S-drive (RWD), one X-drive (AWD) plus our Model X 90. I can go between either of the two X5's in the dry or really wet and there is no difference in the handling. A modern car with traction control and stability management provides outstanding performance unless you're trudging through deep snow or at the absolute edge of the performance window. People driving anywhere it doesn't snow are fooling themselves thinking they are needing AWD unless they are at that ragged edge where 99.9 percent of drivers never near. I'm sure some people think they drive near that limit but very few do and wouldn't have a license long if they did. The range advantage is a separate issue and that I can understand. Anyone else driving their Tesla in rally racing or off road should definitely get AWD.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

In a Tesla the ragged edge is every traffic lights launch ever...

 

[DR61]

DR61, how is it that having 4 traction wheels could possibly be less efficient, however you might define that, than having only 2 traction wheels?

I don't think I said that regarding Tesla dual motor cars. In the EPA tests the Tesla D's get 5% better range than single motor Teslas. That is a consideration for me. Almost all single motor/engine AWD cars are less efficient than RWD or FWD versions of the same model, mostly due to losses in the AWD differential.

 

[NikeWings]

You're surrounded by 110V/220V 60Hz wiring, some of which can be carrying substantial current (cooking, clothes drying, etc.).

There are more credible reasons to be concerned about cell phones. Fortunately the tin foil hat should help with that.

Not to incite a pig pile, but what about sitting in your car while it's supercharging?
Call me nuts, but i get out and roam around until it's done and unplugged.
So am I really nuts?

 

[Doug_G]

Not to incite a pig pile, but what about sitting in your car while it's supercharging?
Call me nuts, but i get out and roam around until it's done and unplugged.
So am I really nuts?

According to basic physics, yes you really are.

Supercharging uses DC current. There is NO EMF from DC current.

 

[Jason S]

NM the FUD re EMF from AC current. The thread is re: RWD vs AWD -- if AWD is available when it comes time to order then I'll choose it. If it isn't available then I won't. I don't recall EVER having an AWD car so not having it isn't going to bother me.

 

[NikeWings]

According to basic physics, yes you really are.

Supercharging uses DC current. There is NO EMF from DC current.

LOL thanks Doug, I've been certified by you!

 

[George Stumpf]

So, I ordered a Performance Model 3 last night, and, after reading about the EMF situation, I'm considering downgrading to a Long Range RWD. Based on what I've read, the AWD versions have an AC motor in the front, so while the EMF levels in a RWD (DC only motor) vehicle are negligible, the EMF from that front AC motor and the EMF required to convert the DC battery power to AC power might be an issue.

I've read everything I can find on the internet on this issue (at least everything Tesla related), so I don't need any "don't worry about EMFs" comments or tinfoil hat jokes. I'm aware that EMFs are probably not carcinogenic, and that there is certainly no good evidence that they are. However, there was also no evidence that radiation in low levels was dangerous at one point (see this article: Radium Girls - Wikipedia), so I'd like to minimize my EMF exposure. If there's even a 10% chance that EMFs are dangerous, I'd prefer to give up the 2 second reduction in 0-60 time rather than expose myself and my family to more than I already do on a daily basis.

Are there any engineers or anyone else knowledgeable out there who could shed some light on the issue?

 

[AltoM3]

I think when people say they "cannot live without" AWD it is a bit of hyperbole. People cannot live without air and water and food. The real issue is that some are willing to wait a few extra months and pay extra for AWD for its benefits, which include range, power, and handling, even on dry pavement. For pretty much everyone, there's a price point where they would choose to live without AWD. And for some, there's no benefit and they wouldn't pay any extra for it.

I want AWD mainly for the added power and handling. Range is not an issue for me because I don't drive all that far (except for my one annual road trip which is farther than the range of any current EV).

I totally agreed.
At the time for the offer of AWD last year, a $4k to add an extra motor to boost the power without loosing much battery range. To me, it was a unique option for motor industry (ICE) that AWD version could offer over 50% of power on the top of what it was typically meant for - better handling in ICE version. I was nearly withdrew my reservation until it was offered with a dual motor. Adding a motor to achieve AWD which is terrific option rather than having transfer axle to the other set of wheels. This added motor option is practically not available in existing ICE vehicle but only in EV car with added power and no loss of battery. This is a breakthrough in the motor industry! I think it is worth much more than extra $5k. This option shall not be weighted on wet / snow road condition only. The benefit goes to dry road for stunning power performance. No other AWD of ICE can provide that. It is an one of the kind configuration that provide more more than traditional AWD.