B-pillar cameras fogging up?

[ilyak]

There’s no way to conclude that replacing the parts caused the issue to be worse. The issue will get better or worse depending on so many factors of weather behavior which may now be more of a factor than it was.

For me, the issue happened consistently until it got colder with less heat-feeling from the sun. In the 50s with hot sun causes the issue. Now we’re in the 40s and the sun doesn’t feel warm it’s not a problem.

Also I cannot understand what any replacement could possibly do to fix the issue, until Tesla puts in a heating system in each camera. The front cameras have a heating element over them, but nobody to my knowledge has found a way to make that work.

While I agree that I can’t rule out all alternative explanations, I do the same drive daily and the overall gamut of weather I’ve experienced before and after the replacement has been about the same: somewhere between 20 and 50F with various forms of precipitation and some occasional sun. At the same time, the difference in the frequency of alerts is drastic - I went from once or twice per 50 miles to 10-15 times.

 

[WilliamG]

While I agree that I can’t rule out all alternative explanations, I do the same drive daily and the overall gamut of weather I’ve experienced before and after the replacement has been about the same: somewhere between 20 and 50F with various forms of precipitation and some occasional sun. At the same time, the difference in the frequency of alerts is drastic - I went from once or twice per 50 miles to 10-15 times.

I hear you. I just can’t think of any logical explanation of how replacing cameras that are INSIDE the car could have any impact on the amount of fogging. That fogging is caused exclusively by external factors - e.g. recirc on, AC off, heat on the glass etc in cold/humid conditions.

Either way, there’s zero point getting any hardware replacements done. The camera system needs an update to include a de-fogging element.

 

[jebinc]

I hear you. I just can’t think of any logical explanation of how replacing cameras that are INSIDE the car could have any impact on the amount of fogging. That fogging is caused exclusively by external factors - e.g. recirc on, AC off, heat on the glass etc in cold/humid conditions.

Either way, there’s zero point getting any hardware replacements done. The camera system needs an update to include a de-fogging element.

Yep, and that is in work by Tesla engineering I was told by the local SC.

 

[WilliamG]

Yep, and that is in work by Tesla engineering I was told by the local SC.

That’s the first I’ve heard about that...

 

[ChargedSociety]

I hear you. I just can’t think of any logical explanation of how replacing cameras that are INSIDE the car could have any impact on the amount of fogging. That fogging is caused exclusively by external factors - e.g. recirc on, AC off, heat on the glass etc in cold/humid conditions.

Either way, there’s zero point getting any hardware replacements done. The camera system needs an update to include a de-fogging element.

I'd tend to disagree because if that was the case I would have the fogging issue on both sides of my car and I don't, it's only one side (so far). I'm quite confident that like a headlight it has to be a sealed unit, once it is no longer sealed moisture can (and will) make its way inside to the lense causing the problem. It seems to be a reoccurring Tesla problem as it's consistently reported with all the camera lenses, headlights, and taillights throughout the car. I believe they simply are not using a sealant up to the task, are not using enough or the sealing surfaces are not substantial enough. I doubt very much Tesla is manufacturing any of these products in house and is most likely buying them from a vendor in China. Lax quality control could be part of the problem.

Contrary to popular belief, these sealed units don't need to be made in a hyperbaric chamber, I've taken many headlights apart using my home oven to modify them in my days. As long as the sealant remains intact or additional sealant/caulking is added they will not fog up once they are put back together.

Adding a heating element will work to defog but it's adding unnecessary complexity, adding cost and an additional failure point when all that needs to happen is Bob in assembly needs to be a little more liberal with the silicon. Besides, the heating element would have to kick in once the lense became fogged; they aren't instant so you'd still have some delay in clearing the condensation unless the element ran constantly which would just be an unnecessary battery drain. I'd much rather the actual problem be addressed then a band-aid fix added.

 

[jebinc]

That’s the first I’ve heard about that...

I also read about this (Tesla Engineering redesigning the assembly somehow) either here on TMC somewhere or on the forums.tesla.com site. It was about a month or so ago when I first posted of my issue with fogging and resultant error msgs. Perhaps someone familiar with this discussion can point us all back to that thread?

 

[ilyak]

I also read about this (Tesla Engineering redesigning the assembly somehow) either here on TMC somewhere or on the forums.tesla.com site. It was about a month or so ago when I first posted of my issue with fogging and resultant error msgs. Perhaps someone familiar with this discussion can point us all back to that thread?

I wonder if you're referring to my earlier post in this thread; the tech that did my replacement did indeed say he spoke to engineering and they're working on redesigning the camera housings, but his impression was that they're looking to improve the seal, not add active heating or airflow.

 

[WilliamG]

I wonder if you're referring to my earlier post in this thread; the tech that did my replacement did indeed say he spoke to engineering and they're working on redesigning the camera housings, but his impression was that they're looking to improve the seal, not add active heating or airflow.

Improving the seal? I don’t even know what that means... That to me sounds like it would just make it much harder for the fogging to go away.

 

[WilliamG]

I'd tend to disagree because if that was the case I would have the fogging issue on both sides of my car and I don't, it's only one side (so far). I'm quite confident that like a headlight it has to be a sealed unit, once it is no longer sealed moisture can (and will) make its way inside to the lense causing the problem. It seems to be a reoccurring Tesla problem as it's consistently reported with all the camera lenses, headlights, and taillights throughout the car. I believe they simply are not using a sealant up to the task, are not using enough or the sealing surfaces are not substantial enough. I doubt very much Tesla is manufacturing any of these products in house and is most likely buying them from a vendor in China. Lax quality control could be part of the problem.

Contrary to popular belief, these sealed units don't need to be made in a hyperbaric chamber, I've taken many headlights apart using my home oven to modify them in my days. As long as the sealant remains intact or additional sealant/caulking is added they will not fog up once they are put back together.

Adding a heating element will work to defog but it's adding unnecessary complexity, adding cost and an additional failure point when all that needs to happen is Bob in assembly needs to be a little more liberal with the silicon. Besides, the heating element would have to kick in once the lense became fogged; they aren't instant so you'd still have some delay in clearing the condensation unless the element ran constantly which would just be an unnecessary battery drain. I'd much rather the actual problem be addressed then a band-aid fix added.

It actually makes perfect sense that it’s on one side of the car. I have the same issue because I’m driving e.g. north with the sun in the west, and it’s the driver’s side pillar that’s fogging from the cold air and the sun hitting it. If you turned around and drove the other direction it would cause the other B pillar housing to fog.

Again, I’m not saying for sure that you’re wrong. I just haven’t seen a completely convincing argument that the housing replacement is the reason it’s worse now.

Also, I believe our headlights and tail lights are not sealed, exactly for this reason. My previous car, a 2016 Golf R definitely did not have sealed headlights. People would complain on vwvortex when their cars were delivered new that there was moisture in them. And so often we’d have to say be patient - it will go away. Came up all the time.

 

[ChargedSociety]

It actually makes perfect sense that it’s on one side of the car. I have the same issue because I’m driving e.g. north with the sun in the west, and it’s the driver’s side pillar that’s fogging from the cold air and the sun hitting it. If you turned around and drove the other direction it would cause the other B pillar housing to fog.

Again, I’m not saying for sure that you’re wrong. I just haven’t seen a completely convincing argument that the housing replacement is the reason it’s worse now.

Also, I believe our headlights and tail lights are not sealed, exactly for this reason. My previous car, a 2016 Golf R definitely did not have sealed headlights. People would complain on vwvortex when their cars were delivered new that there was moisture in them. And so often we’d have to say be patient - it will go away. Came up all the time.

By that theory, I would have to drive the exact same conditions every day under the same lighting but I don't. It doesn't matter if it's daytime or nighttime, foggy, sunny, cloudy, sleet, rain, snow. If it's not a perfectly dry 70+ degree day I get moisture on the passenger side camera lense. This is because there is moisture in the air that makes its way into my lense. OK, headlights are a slightly different animal because of heat, back when we ran HID headlights they got incredibly hot and some needed to be vented, this is no longer the case with LED lights as they do not create the same amount of heat. A camera does not need to be vented because it does not create heat. An HID headlight would clear up moisture relatively quickly because it does get hot. A camera, on the other hand, does not, the only way for the moisture to go away is by an external source. If I lived somewhere warm it would be less annoying because you're right by afternoon the problem would resolve itself but I live in Canada, which means for eight months or more of the year and even on rainy days in the summer it isn't hot enough to clear up the moisture.

I've had my car since late august and the problem started in September which means for the vast majority of the ownership of my brand new relatively expensive car I've been getting error messages pretty much every single time I drive it. I love Tesla but in no way is this acceptable.

 

[WilliamG]

By that theory, I would have to drive the exact same conditions every day under the same lighting but I don't. It doesn't matter if it's daytime or nighttime, foggy, sunny, cloudy, sleet, rain, snow. If it's not a perfectly dry 70+ degree day I get moisture on the passenger side camera lense. This is because there is moisture in the air that makes its way into my lense. OK, headlights are a slightly different animal because of heat, back when we ran HID headlights they got incredibly hot and some needed to be vented, this is no longer the case with LED lights as they do not create the same amount of heat. A camera does not need to be vented because it does not create heat. An HID headlight would clear up moisture relatively quickly because it does get hot. A camera, on the other hand, does not, the only way for the moisture to go away is by an external source. If I lived somewhere warm it would be less annoying because you're right by afternoon the problem would resolve itself but I live in Canada, which means for eight months or more of the year and even on rainy days in the summer it isn't hot enough to clear up the moisture.

I've had my car since late august and the problem started in September which means for the vast majority of the ownership of my brand new relatively expensive car I've been getting error messages pretty much every single time I drive it. I love Tesla but in no way is this acceptable.

OK, providing more information about time of day etc, helps. I agree, either way, that this is an issue. I've had the issue, lots of others had, too. Tesla should indeed fix it, one way or another.

 

[ilyak]

Improving the seal? I don’t even know what that means... That to me sounds like it would just make it much harder for the fogging to go away.

This is what I got from the tech, pretty much verbatim:

engineering is actively working on a redesign that would provide a better seal between the top portion of the camera enclosure and the glass applique

On a side note, my issue does not seem to be related to the sun as I've gotten the alerts with about the same frequency while driving around in the dark. To think of it, I've not seen the sun in a couple of months now. Welcome to winter in western NY.

 

[WilliamG]

This is what I got from the tech, pretty much verbatim:


On a side note, my issue does not seem to be related to the sun as I've gotten the alerts with about the same frequency while driving around in the dark. To think of it, I've not seen the sun in a couple of months now. Welcome to winter in western NY.

How are you using your climate in the car? AC on or off? Recirc on or off? I can tell you for sure that using AC with recirc Off Makes a huge difference. In the winter one should always use AC to keep the humidity (even from your body/breath) from fogging the car. And recirc OFF is the cherry on top.

If you're experiencing the issue even in the dark, with no external humidity to speak of, the problem is entirely in the climate controlling of the interior of the car.

 

[ilyak]

How are you using your climate in the car? AC on or off? Recirc on or off? I can tell you for sure that using AC with recirc Off Makes a huge difference. In the winter one should always use AC to keep the humidity (even from your body/breath) from fogging the car. And recirc OFF is the cherry on top.

If you're experiencing the issue even in the dark, with no external humidity to speak of, the problem is entirely in the climate controlling of the interior of the car.

I use the climate control as appropriate for the, well, climate that I live in. I usually, but not always, preheat on max defrost for 20 minutes and then set the temperature to 68-70F and use the auto setting for everything except recirculation - I hate recirculated air in cars so I almost always have it set to allow the outside air to mix in. With this said, I've tried everything, including leaving industrial desiccant packets in my car. I don't know why you don't trust me when I say that this is not a "you're holding it wrong" scenario, but if the answer was as simple as changing my climate control settings, I would have found it by now.

 

[WilliamG]

I use the climate control as appropriate for the, well, climate that I live in. I usually, but not always, preheat on max defrost for 20 minutes and then set the temperature to 68-70F and use the auto setting for everything except recirculation - I hate recirculated air in cars so I almost always have it set to allow the outside air to mix in. With this said, I've tried everything, including leaving industrial desiccant packets in my car. I don't know why you don't trust me when I say that this is not a "you're holding it wrong" scenario, but if the answer was as simple as changing my climate control settings, I would have found it by now.

Try not using the auto setting. I think that's your problem. I don't know what it's doing, but the car has zero idea of the humidity inside, and probably doesn't use the AC (guessing here). I posted this earlier, but you should have absolutely ZERO fogging of the car. Try these settings:

Temp: 68F
Fan direction: ALL directions (important)
Fan speed: 2, 3, or... whatever! I use 2.
Recirc: OFF
AC: ON

If you're still having fogging issues, let me know. We need to get to the bottom of this, because this problem shouldn't exist.

 

[jeadams]

I am also experiencing fogging of both b pillar cameras which are triggering blind spot warning alerts. Car was ok until the weather changed

 

[WilliamG]

I am also experiencing fogging of both b pillar cameras which are triggering blind spot warning alerts. Car was ok until the weather changed

There's nothing you can do except keep the car as humidity free as possible by using AC etc. I firmly believe this requires a hardware retrofit to fix the problem.

 

[not4antoher]

About 7 month old my RWD LR causes the same malfunction today.
An error message popped up ‘Left door pillar camera blocked or blinded’
The vehicle was parked my house’s garage for two days. I live in California and temp was about 65F no rain.

I checked the both cameras and noticed water condensation in the both sides.

 

[ConcordeSST]

Minnesota today. Sep 18 build.

 

[not4antoher]

I know tesla does not use the pillar cameras for autopilot, but collecting data from it.
It will cause a major problem when Tesla decides to use those cameras for auto city driving.